Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
underworld

keep illegals legal?? WTF?

Recommended Posts

where the heck did that come from?

 

but i wouldn't mind it if they confronted the day labor parties outside my place. i see drug deals and prostitutes daily. but they can't crack down on that type of illegal activity, it looks 'racist'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
my point was to point out the screwed up logic here. that the police are supposed to enforce the law - are protecting those breaking the law. same with all these other back asswards fest and get-togethers.

 

Since when have the police NOT existed to protect those breaking the law? Just as they have to protect the innocent they have to protect the "guilty" (as your screwed up view sees it) from vigilante justice and violence. As somebody else pointed out, they are around to keep the peace, not try to bust immigrants (many of them legal, mind you) and others protesting.

 

You also completely ignored my point. The economy is dependent on illegal immigrants at this point. They are also LESS LIKELY to commit crims than are native born Americans. Just because you happen to be a second generation native-born (as myself and plenty of others are) doesn't give you the right to completely ignore the facts and take xenophobic views any more than anybody else. Nor does your mexican heritage give you any more leway to critisize a largely hispanic demographic any more than somebody of a different race.

 

The fact remains is that a great deal of people are still scared of those who are different and those they see as taking their opportunities. Unfortunately for this argument, the fact also remains that illegal immigrants take, almost exclusively, jobs that "americans" won't do themselves. It's racist and xenophobic, plain and simple, because the pragmatic mind realizes what a benifit they are to our society.

 

Another point to bring up is the political implications of legalizing immigrants that aren't here "legally." Over 2/3 of this demographic will vote Democratic. They certainly realize this and it gives them another vested interest to continue to work against those who are here to work and improve their lives.

 

Pull your head out of the sand. wave.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah, that's just the po-lice themselves, doing "undercover" work.

 

If hundreds of thousands of people are protesting, I think it's worth paying attention to them, regardless of whether you think they should just go eat torta or whatever. What's the alternative? Fairweather can't be bothered to shoot all them wetbacks himself.

 

Why not make it as easy as possible for immigrants who want to work to do so? As long as they pay taxes, who cares? A guest worker program might be a good idea, since if there's a offically sanctioned way to get work that doesn't involve risking your life swimming the Rio Grande, then people will probably be willing to compete for a chance to take part. Everyone wins in that scenario.

 

I just read about some primate studies where it was observed that new members of a group, when welcomed into "society", quickly adapted to the new group's social standards. This in contrast to say, Germany or France, where guest workers (Eastern Europeans, Turks, Africans) have had a hard time assimilating, arguably because the natives weren't too welcoming or just kept to themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The economy is dependent on illegal immigrants at this point. They are also LESS LIKELY to commit crims than are native born Americans.

 

Your first statement sounds a lot like the oppostition to the $50 Vehicle Tabs a few years ago. I don't buy it. You could outsource most of those jobs if need be. I doubt it would produce much more than a hickup in the overall scheme of things.

 

Sure seems like the ratio of naitve born Americans in jail vs the ratio of illegals in Jail would conflict with your second statement. Or is that just because the police and courts are all racist. rolleyes.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, like manufacturing.

 

I did both crop and janitorial work when I was a youngster. And the last time I checked, our economy wasn't teetering on either of those sectors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
where the heck did that come from?

That was the random putdown insult only tangentially related to the topic with little or no basis in fact, but sort of funny in a mean spirited way. I'm trying to work my way to Ann Coulter/ Bill O'Reilly/ Rush Limbaugh status/wealth on the liberal side of the coin. I'm better looking than Al Franken (who isn't?) so I figure I've got a chance!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They are also LESS LIKELY to commit crims than are native born Americans.

 

please provide some numbers to prove this...

 

doesn't give you the right to completely ignore the facts and take xenophobic views

 

i'm pretty sure i haven't said anything derogatory about any race here. just because i brought up the topic of illegals w/o completely showing support for their cause - automatically gets the response of me being a racist. different opinion = wrong opinion

 

 

...Unfortunately for this argument, the fact also remains that illegal immigrants take, almost exclusively, jobs that "americans" won't do themselves. It's racist and xenophobic, plain and simple, because the pragmatic mind realizes what a benifit they are to our society.

 

not sure if you agree w/ me on this...you used too many big words - but it sounds horrible to want to keep letting them in illegally because they do the dirty work. if we keep a second class citizen here then we'll always have someone to mow our lawn and clean our toilettes. seems like some might have that attitude on both sides.

Edited by underworld

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately my JSTOR access account at school is acting up right now, so I'll give a article source that you should be able to easily find through other means. As I imagine you will, you can simply read the abstract for the article and then proceed to bash it as "liberal academia". rolleyes.gif

 

Sociological Criminology and the Mythology of Hispanic Immigration and Crime

John Hagan, Alberto Palloni

Social Problems, Vol. 46, No. 4 (Nov., 1999) , pp. 617-632

View Article Abstract

 

John Hagan, Northwestern University and American Bar Foundation

 

Alberto Palloni, University of Wisconsin.

 

"Our sociological knowledge of crime is fragmented and ineffective in challenging and correcting mistaken public perceptions, for example, linking immigration and crime. These misperceptions are perpetuated by government reports of growing numbers of Hispanic immigrants in U.S. prisons. However, Hispanic immigrants are disproportionately young males who regardless of citizenship are at greater risk of criminal involvement. They are also more vulnerable to restrictive treatment in the criminal justice system, especially at the pre-trial stage. When these differences are integrated into calculations using equations that begin with observed numbers of immigrants and citizens in state prisons, it is estimated that the involvement of Hispanic immigrants in crime is less than that of citizens. These results cast doubt on the hypothesis that immigration causes crime and make more transparent the immigration and criminal justice policies that inflate the rate of Hispanic incarceration. This transparency helps to resolve a paradox in the picture of Mexican immigration to the United States, since by most measures of well-being, Mexican immigrants are found to do as well and sometimes better than citizens."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

not sure if you agree w/ me on this...you used too many big words - but it sounds horrible to want to keep letting them in illegally because they do the dirty work. if we keep a second class citizen here then we'll always have someone to mow our lawn and clean our toilettes. seems like some might have that attitude on both sides.

 

No, that is not what I was saying. I think my point (and, frankly, your reply) is a clear example of why these people deserve citizenship. They work hard and are here to earn a living for their family. For that, they should be paid a minimum wage and reciece the government benifits that we all receive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should the proliferate illegal contractors be required to pay back taxes, SSI, etc.? In my geographic region they've successfully underbid those with the government mandated labor burden for many years.

 

Or, to be fair to those that have competed with illegal contractors, should you declare amnesty, would you have the government refund taxes, SSI, State Unemployment payments, etc. to those competitors that have operated legally?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Care to name a Country where, originally, humans didn't move to and subsequently form a political state/nation?

 

This county was founded on imigrants, lets not forget that.

This oft heard notion (usually spelled correctly) is as trite as most of my posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This county was founded on imigrants, lets not forget that.

Although your statement is well intentioned (I believe), it is not true. Africans did not immigrate here; they were brought against their will and forced into slavery. In the process of coming through the "Middle Passage" MILLIONS died of disease, dysentery, starvation, or were simply thrown off the ship into the Atlantic. I would hardly call this immigration; sounds more like genocide to me.

 

But that's "water under the bridge," right? rolleyes.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are right, but I was responding to the comment that the country was "founded on immigrants." At that time I know of no Africans that were here other than through slavery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing like millitant milquetoast white folks beating their PC drum while restating conventional wisdom as though it's some kind of bold contravention of the status quo.

 

"Racism is REAL!!!!!!!!!That's right - I said it....REAL"

"Black people didn't immigrate here - they were brought here as SLAVES!!!!!!!!"

 

Awesome. Treat us to some more of these keen moral and or historical insights.

 

"Abusing children is WRONG!!!!!!!"

"Lighting old people on fire is NOT OKAY!!!"

"I am AGAINST stomping kittens and puppies to death. Yeah, you heard me!!!"

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×