Cheap Rack

[Gary_Yngve]

ABC Huevos are cheaper than BDs and pretty much equivalent.

 

How often do you want to climb? How hard do you expect to be climbing this season? That will also dictate how much / how pricy of a rack to get.

[Dechristo]

I like those ABC stoppers.

[peakbetty]

That way, you'll get to sample a "cheap rack".

 

Been there, done that. Now I need to get a stove and a water filter. But at least I had the common sense to buy my own tent.

 

In any case, thanks for the gear advice!

[Gary_Yngve]

No need to buy a water filter.

 

One of the following is almost always true:

You can carry all the water you need.

You can use the chlorine stuff (lighter and cheaper and no aftertaste).

The alpine water is pristine enough.

You're in a large group and can mooch off of someone else's filter.

[DirtyHarry]

Good points. Plus you should just carry beer anyay.

[Dru]

You can always drink your own urine if you run out of water. It worked for Gandhi!

[selkirk]

Water filters are great for backpacking trips, or large group multi-day trips with water available, then just volunteer to bring a tent or stove instead. You can always get around having a filter.

 

If your just doing single day alpine stuff though just get a little bottle of Iodine tablets 90% of the time you'll carry enough water anyway, and on glaciers if your going to melt snow you might as well just boil the water.

[ryland_moore]

PeakBetty - all of this is good. Asuming you are a newbie climber, I am also assuming you are a newbie backpacker with the list of stuff you are wanting to purchase (tent, stove, filter, etc.). Everyone starts out somewhere and thinks they need all of this gear, when in reality, you can get by with a lot less. I own a filter and bet I have not used it once in the last three years and I am out climbing almost every weekend in the spring and summer. I use iodine tablets or that little bottle you fill up and put a cap full in a nalgene. I've used these on 2 week backpacking trips and been fine. If getting a stove, go lite with the jetboil or something similar. Same with your rack. You will only need a small rack and can combine with partners you climb with. I do not have a full rack and can always comingle with partners. Just make sure you mark your gear or you may end up losing it like some poor cc.comer was complaining about recently. Just remember, whatever you take, you have to carry. If you don't bring it along on a regular basis, do you really need it? Most of the routes a newbie will be doing will not be gear specific and you will have multiple options for gear placements at almost every point you want to throw something in, so no need to buy a full rack anyway starting out.

[DirtyHarry]

and on glaciers if your going to melt snow you might as well just boil the water.

 

Why? That takes way more fuel, and time.

[selkirk]

and on glaciers if your going to melt snow you might as well just boil the water.

 

Why? That takes way more fuel, and time.

 

Last time I was out the time to melt a pot of water was probably 15 min? Added time to boil was maybe 4. I guess a filter might pay for itself in weight if your out for a several days in the snow and need to melt a great deal, but for an overnight trip for 2-4 people I'd leave it at home. Not to mention if the snow isn't yellow or brown, exactly how critical do you think filtering / boiling is?

[Toast]

In this thread are good hints on starting your rack, especially CBS's links to two other threads on the topic. One quick way to pick up some biners is to buy a six pack of quick draws. You'll use those cragging, but if you go alpine, you can take the biners off and add those to some shoulder length tied slings of 9/16" climb spec webbing for more versatility.

 

Other good advice, start off slow. You don't need a full Yosemite rack, just a set of nuts, the larger half of a hex set, some racking biners, and maybe an abbreviated set of cams from 0.5 - 2.0 if you have the spare cash, but I'd hold off on those till you need them.

 

If you're cragging, you won't need to worry about water purification. You'll be able to carry the water you need. Aqua Mira (chlorine dioxide) is a lot lighter than a filter. A filter, stove and tent are group gear, and you can probably get by with one of the three and partner up for the rest.

 

Despite the online personalities, most of the folks here are good people. Have fun.

Edited February 27, 2006 by Toast

[DirtyHarry]

and on glaciers if your going to melt snow you might as well just boil the water.

 

Why? That takes way more fuel, and time.

 

Last time I was out the time to melt a pot of water was probably 15 min? Added time to boil was maybe 4. I guess a filter might pay for itself in weight if your out for a several days in the snow and need to melt a great deal, but for an overnight trip for 2-4 people I'd leave it at home. Not to mention if the snow isn't yellow or brown, exactly how critical do you think filtering / boiling is?

 

Not at all. That was my point. Shit, I've never boiled, filtered, or iodined water anywhere in the Cascades.

[peakbetty]

I was just kidding about the water filter, stove, tent! But that is a good point about buying too much. Thanks for the advice about not needing to have all the group gear.

[Gary_Yngve]

If I'm camping out at a well-used site on a glacier route, I'm boiling my water or using some other form of purification. Usually I avoid that by trying to find campsites/routes that offer more solitude. I don't trust hordes of gapers to follow the pee downhill, get snow uphill rule.

 

I'm sure the rangers on Denali have stats for how many people complain of the runs, and I'm sure it's a nontrivial amount. There's no way of finding the stats, but I'd be curious how many got it from bad snow and how many people got it from poor hygiene.

[dalius]

peakbetty, nobody is chewing your ass. (that would be gross)if you're going to want to glean some useful information from this board, you're going to have to be able to roll with the punches and be able to take a little sarcasm. you can't have a short fuse around here. nobody means any harm. climbers are freaks by nature that like to have little fun on the board.

 

regarding the rack,there have been lots of good suggestions. if you're looking for cheap, i'd say stick to mostly nuts and hexes and tri-cams, but don't expect to be leading anything too steep with just that. you're going to start needing cams if you're going to want to be placing gear quickly one-handed in steep terrain. do you know what kind of terrain you will be venturing onto in the crag course?

 

good luck putting it together

[Dru]

It would be helpful if you posted a picture of the rack you've already got so we could see what you need?

 

It sounds like you have a bunch of draws already.

 

I don't know about the "rock rope". Do you have a "glacier rope" already, is that why you said "rock rope"? Cause you might be able to use the same rope for both. What kind of rope do you already have?

[ryland_moore]

Shit, I've never boiled, filtered, or iodined water anywhere in the Cascades.

Is that why they call you Dirty? Becasue you have the runs all the time?

[DirtyHarry]

It's 'cause I drop coils on you from great heights.

[peakbetty]

Hmmm, yes my rack consists of a few quick draws, a tri cam, a camalot (I don't know what size), biners, belay device, etc. a couple of slings. The rope is a hand-me-down (never used before me) 9mm X 45 m.

[Bug]

I have some old wired stoppers I would sell. They aren't "light" by today's standards but they are cheap and in good shape.

 

As for the rest of the deviants on the thread, even though they talk trash here, they tend to be nice in person. The Newbie forum IS supposed to be newbie friendly though. So I think you should spank those bad boys.

[Toast]

spank me, yeehaw

[RogerJ]

Who's first?

[willstrickland]

Alot will vary based on whether you are climbing primarily sport, crag, or "adventure/alpine" route. I will assume that you target a wide variety, with alot of wandering lower angle routes typical of both easier crag climbs and moderate alpine rock routes.

 

I would get:

 

A set of stoppers, probably ABC Huevos. ABC usually sells a cheap set that's a clone of the Black Diamond stoppers.

Look here: http://www.advancedbasecamp.com/catalog.php?type=product&id=19447

 

At the bottom is "Alpine Huevo Set" a set from #4-13, retails for $53. Score. This the best value you will get in stoppers, IMO. They are BD clones and anodized color-coded to size. A #4 in this sizing scheme is pretty tiny, so you're not really missing anything by skipping the smallest ones, which are rated for aid-only anyway.

 

Then, I would get some "alpine draws". This is just some thin, 4ft length spectra slings that you can double or triple over to make short or long draws, or extend all the way to keep the rope running straight on wandering terrain. These can also be used to sling natural features for pro...trees, flakes, horns. The Mammut 8mm ones are ideal. Now these are not cheap, but they are incredibly light and perfectly suited for this kind of multi-use application. They'll run you about $10/ea for the slings, then a couple of biners for each sling. Trango std wire gates are hard to beat for $5, and Omega sells quality inexpensive biners as well, it's largely personal preference...point is figure $5/biner. So you're at about $20/ea for the alpine draws. Figure two to four of them. Get extra biners while you're at it, figure another half dozen at least.

Call it $110 total for 4 alpine draws and 6 extra biners.

 

Get some std tubular nylon webbing. Say 30-40ft or so. You can do a million things with it...tie any size slings you want, tie makeshift aiders, replace mank on rap stations, etc. Figure $10-15.

 

Get a cordelette. 7mm perlon works. About 20', call it $15. Aside from anchors, you can also use it for a super long runner to tie off a feature, thread something, many uses.

 

Now, you've got to cover the thin hands and larger sizes. Skip the Hexes. They are cheap and light, and ok if you're wiggling them in from a good stance, but you will curse the day you ever saw them when trying to place one from a pumpy stance. A set of hexes will run you $130, and for a little more you can get a set of BD camalots 0.5-#2 for $210 right here:

 

http://www.gearexpress.biz/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=G&Product_Code=32624

 

OK, now take the new camalot that duplicates the cam size you already have, and sell it to someone else here. Take that cash, and put it toward a #3 camalot (if the #3 Blue one is the one you have already, you're all set).

 

with your partner's rack added to this, you can cover most things for about $400

 

The Camalots are a tad heavier than others, but not enought to notice and the quality and feel are pretty much the benchmark. I have Camalots on my own rack. Cams smaller than .5 are REAL nice to have eventually, but nuts cover that size in the meantime.

 

Now with that rack combined with a partners, and a couple of finger sized cams and you could climb just about any free climb in the region.

 

Show me a cheaper, higher quality, and more comprehensive set up...I dare ya Good luck.

[selkirk]

I'll take that challenge!

 

For the Biners go to Pro Mountain Sports, Jim carries Mammut Wiregate carabiners for $5.25, and if you buy 10 you get one free. The action is sweet, and their about 25% lighter than the Trango's for the same cost.

 

Get a 5-pack of alpine draws at PMS for $82.50

Gear Express has the Huevos for $50

 

As for the Cam's check out pagangear.com. I'm personally a big fan of the DMM's cams and they're at $38.40 piece right now get sizes (0.75, 1, 2, 3, 4 up to camalot size 3 equivalent)

 

So...

Cordollette $15

Webbing $15

Huevos $50

a 5 pack of alpine draws at PMS

(10 biners, 5singles)$83

2 double 7mm $20

11 lightweight Biners$52

DMM Cams (5 cams) $192

 

Total: 1 set nuts, 5 cams, 7 draws, 7 spare biners, cordollette, and webbing for $427.

[Cobra_Commander]

I encountered some cheap racks in Vegas last year. You can acquire them by selecting any one of the cards the helpful tourist guides were waving on the strip.

 

Read the fine print carefully though, as there are some qualifications to the deal.