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Bolting a crack to "protect it from pins"....


pope

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.. ironically, the first time I met pope was when I heard “tap tap tap” of a hammer on a clean route at the Lower town Wall.

For the record, if you heard "tap tap tap" (a detail that didn't appear the first time you wrote your version of the story), it didn't come from me. I place and carried no pins on that climb. The hammer was for back cleaning weighted nuts. I didn't use it. Also, we didn't meet that day. You confronted my belayer. I had no idea what was going on down there.

 

Interested parties should search for a thread called “Rock Police” for the details.

Last I looked that thread had disappeared. Somebody didn't like my version of our encounter at the gym. My guess is that a moderator named Peter Puget erased the thread.

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We have a winner!

Too bad Ron can't participate in this argument as I am sure he would have some interesting views. His artical (if I find the original I have buried away I will scan) on constructive scarring and his HAFWEN ( hammered anchors fixed where nessesary) routes were "revolutionary" when they were first expressed in Zion in the late 70's and 80's. Also seemingly contradictory were his routes in Snow Canyon and Boulder problems in Zion that were enhanced by the drill. We need Ron on this forum to show you all a thing or two! rolleyes.gif

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Thirty two years of climbing in a couple of weeks and not extinct yet. You'd definitely be hating my routes...

you might be surprised at what i think/do on your routes....but then again, your arrogance had better be founded somewhere cuz its off the charts... yellaf.gif

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Answering a "troll" post seems stupid, but I'll take the bait.

 

Presented with an extreme example, like bolts/pins next to viable clean gear, the answer is, or should be, obvious. But what about the obvious contradiction surrounding the issue of "rock damage" and pin placement versus bolts? How would we free climb/protect certain thin cracks without them having pin scars from nailing? Modern "clean" gear offers so much more possibility for placement, the point being to use this advantage to minimize fixed placements of any kind.

 

I think there are places where pins would work better than bolts as fixed gear and vice versa. While the sentimentality for rusty old buttonhead/leeper combos and rusty FP's can be understood, it doesn't really make sense in the context of their original placement; the certainty of their strength was much greater.

 

In the end, closemindedness on the issue--I.E. a "moral opposition" to even the most tasteful, enjoyable, and well-conceived bolted climbs--will only dictate what sort of climbing you participate in; all other types will continue to have some sort of place in the spectrum, regardless of the state of your sensibility and, unfortunately at times, of the environment and adventure that we cherish.

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Me

SC -

Frog Pond is nothing like SPM. You once claimed (on CC.com) that a retro bolted route at Index was the best "new" route at Index. How should an outside observer take your comments?

 

SC

And, it wasn't a claim, it was a statement of fact: Dwarf Tosser WAS the best new route at Index (no quotes needed).

And it wasn't retro-bolted because before bolting, it didn't exist. Don't overlook this fact.

Have you climbed it yet

 

link

 

I'll leave it to readers to decide who is spewing the shit. I would note that the clean pro attainable along the base of Dana's Arch was far more marginal than the stuff along Snow White.

 

Anyway I think I am through with this thread.

 

Cheers,

 

You STILL didn't state whether you climbed it, and what "it" consists of! If you didn't even free the all points off jump crux, then how can you say it was climbed before? and if it was only aided, then yes climbing it free creates a "new" route, one that hadn't been done before.

 

Plus, on top of seemingly not having done the jump crux, and certainly not the entry from the left with the boulder start, why and how would you claim it isn't a new route?

 

But if you or anyone else HAD done the sections in question before the addition of bolts, then certainly the claim of a new route is false, isn't it?

 

So it's pretty simple. If you or anyone else had freed the line that is now bolted, I am wrong with the new route claim (i am not claiming it for myself since I did not have FA);

If you nor anyone else had freed the now-bolted line IN ITS ENTIRETY, then it is a new route.

 

not that i even give a shit, but you're such a wanker that i'll continue arguing this until i get a straight answer about previous ascents. will i get this answer?

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We have a winner!

Too bad Ron can't participate in this argument as I am sure he would have some interesting views. His artical (if I find the original I have buried away I will scan) on constructive scarring and his HAFWEN ( hammered anchors fixed where nessesary) routes were "revolutionary" when they were first expressed in Zion in the late 70's and 80's. Also seemingly contradictory were his routes in Snow Canyon and Boulder problems in Zion that were enhanced by the drill. We need Ron on this forum to show you all a thing or two! rolleyes.gif

And check out his video on "Clean" climbing.

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It's like Sysiphus rolling the big stone up the hill. As soon as he reaches the top, it rolls down the other side and he has to start all over again, for eternity.

 

Only at the bottom he is confronted by a hoard of gaper stone rollers who spray about proper stone rolling technique and the ethics of gravity. The festering dialogue turns to "I have 30+ years of rolling stones and that's unsafe trundling...etc" rolleyes.gif

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