poison ivy (bad reaction)

[mtn_mouse]

Snafflehounds are immune

[ryland_moore]

Poison Ivy is on the east coast while Poison Oak is on the west. Some contest that poison Oak is more serious and people are more allergic to poison oak. That being said, if you can avoid treating it with steroids and let your body deal with it, you may be able to build up a tolerance or defense. I had a friend in Eugene who ate poison oak. She got it really bad and in her throat and lasted about a month. That was fifteen years ago and now she works in the woods all yearand can handle it physically without any reaction.

 

I still get it every year while turkey hunting when the leaves and toxins are fresh. I carry TechNu with me and put it on my clothes after I leave the woods, but still manage to get it. I only go to the steroids if it gets to the nether regions.

 

Also, if you know you have come into contact with it, find water immediately and gently wipe off the exposed skin in cool water. The toxins are like little bubbles. They break open and are absorbed through the skin. If you can be really careful and not touch the area that came in contact, you have a chance of not breaking open the toxin bubbles and can get it off of you in time. But, the toxin bubbles are easily opened. Sweat dripping on the skin is strong enough to open them up, hence you have to get to water fast.

[Cobra_Commander]

open the toxin bubbles

but sir, what about the innocent women and chil...

OPEN THE TOXIN BUBBLES

[smithisheaven]

to my knowledge there is alot of poison ivy in the wenatchee and surrounding area. Vantage has several patches, the Zig Zag wall has some. You can find it it Leavenworth, Ski Track Cracks has alot and Banks Lake has some of the largest patches I have ever seen protecting some of the climbs there. It can also be found in abundance at the China Bend crag north of Spokane. The local climbers have even named some routes after it (ie poison Ivy Crack in Leavenworth)

[Jim]

Poison Ivy is on the east coast while Poison Oak is on the west.

 

A common misconception. Posion ivy (Toxicodendron rydbergii) can be found east and west of the Cascades and ranges to the Atlantic coast. I have found it on Ft. Lewis and near Tacoma - the closest to Seattle I've seen it. Posion oak (T. diversilobum) is limited to Nevada and the Pacific states. Ivy is a vine, oak a shrub. Eat neither.

[catbirdseat]

Poison Ivy is on the east coast while Poison Oak is on the west. Some contest that poison Oak is more serious and people are more allergic to poison oak. That being said, if you can avoid treating it with steroids and let your body deal with it, you may be able to build up a tolerance or defense. I had a friend in Eugene who ate poison oak. She got it really bad and in her throat and lasted about a month. That was fifteen years ago and now she works in the woods all yearand can handle it physically without any reaction.

 

I still get it every year while turkey hunting when the leaves and toxins are fresh. I carry TechNu with me and put it on my clothes after I leave the woods, but still manage to get it. I only go to the steroids if it gets to the nether regions.

 

Also, if you know you have come into contact with it, find water immediately and gently wipe off the exposed skin in cool water. The toxins are like little bubbles. They break open and are absorbed through the skin. If you can be really careful and not touch the area that came in contact, you have a chance of not breaking open the toxin bubbles and can get it off of you in time. But, the toxin bubbles are easily opened. Sweat dripping on the skin is strong enough to open them up, hence you have to get to water fast.

I wish I could develop an immunity, but it seems I become more sensitized with each exposure.

 

My understanding of the toxin is that it is an oil. Your skin has a thin layer of keratin rich dead cells, underwhich is a fatty layer. The oils are only stopped by the top level of the epidermis. Once they reach the stratum corneum they are easily able to diffuse through. Any sort of scratching or abrasion speeds delivery of the oils. It is important to use soap and water to emulsify these oils. Water alone will not remove them easily.

[Alpinfox]

I wish I could develop an immunity, but it seems I become more sensitized with each exposure.

 

Try eating some and report back with your findings.

[gary_hehn]

I had a friend that was out on a marathon training run and had to duck into the woods for a nature break. He answered his call and unwittingly wiped with the stuff. Seriously, this really happened! Needless to say, he didn't run the marathon.

 

My sister got into Poison Ivy (East coast) and passed it on to my other sister who then proceeded to pass it on to me. Very persistent and nasty stuff.

 

smithisheaven, hope your friend gets well soon.

[EWolfe]

I got systemic poison oak reaction a few years back and had to get cortizone shots for the infection. I was out for 2 weeks.

 

[JayB]

I recommend going the homeopathic route. Extract the active ingredient from the poison oak/ivy, and prepare a solution in the appropriate diluent - then, maximum effect - prepare a 1/10^100 dillution of the original.

 

According to homeopathy, like-cures-like, and the potency of this effect increases with increasing dillution, so you should be better in no time if you follow this plan.

[gosolo]

Try eating some and report back with your findings.

 

No shit, I knew a woman who did just that. She ate a little bit of the stuff whenever she was around it and claimed to never have any problems. Saw it with my own eyes.

 

You do really need to wash the gear that gets in that shit. I can swim through poison ivy but the oak crap is badd badd badd....My chalkbag got in it once and I did not wash it. Went on a business trip and went bouldering. While bouldering I had to pee. Next day as I sat through 8 hours of meetings trying not to itch I had to reassure myself that I had not been doing any hanky panky with a skanky...Dude, be careful out there....

[Greta]

I used to do wildland firefighting during the fire season and would pretty much get a tuff case of the shit all over my junk on an anual basis. We used to burn through the vile weed all the time and fortunately never had a systemic reaction. Ive heard horror stories of people getting it mixed up in their kindling and buringing in their campfire, only to have their alveoli and bronchioles seeping with pus a few days later, with intubation and aggressive corticosteroid therapy as the lifesaving treatment of choice. On the other hand, Ive heard tossing a salad of the shit is a sure fire way to establish life-long immunity.

[Squid]

This is not the first time that tossing a salad has been recommended as a medical treatment.

[archenemy]

All I know is when I get my license I will be LEGALLY REQUIRED to practice under the scope practice for a licensed doctor, and my patients will be lucky to visit me and get the help they need. I'd be the same person with a D.O., M.D., or D.C. license and would employ the same treatments more or less.

You are being extrememly childish, bordering on offensive and highly retarded.

 

I have received excellent care from chiropractors for some pretty serious injuries over my life. I currently see a chiropractor and am very grateful.

 

With that said, my chiropractor is not my doctor. I cannot designate him as my primary care physician within my health network. Nor would I want to.

A chiro does not provide the same treatments as an MD more or less. A chiro cannot prescribe drugs or do surgery (stuff that people generally associate with docs) and an MD does not adjust the spine. These differences are important for obvious reasons.

 

Again, I respect and appreciate my chiro as I do my doc. But to tell people that there is little difference between the two is potentially misleading and definitely not necessary. You are obviously proud of the fact you are a chiro--as you should be. It is an honorable profession with a history that is distinctly different from the MD field's development.

 

Best of luck to you in your studies; many people will benefit from your devotion to your practise.

[magellan]

My MD is a DO. He's manipulated me and diagnosed me and prescribed me. I now see and ND for most everything, because drugs are bad, ok.

[Greta]

This is not the first time that tossing a salad has been recommended as a medical treatment.

 

I was wondering how long it was going to take for one of you ex-con, gansta niggas to chime in on that one..... bizzzatch.

[layton]

All I know is when I get my license I will be LEGALLY REQUIRED to practice under the scope practice for a licensed doctor, and my patients will be lucky to visit me and get the help they need. I'd be the same person with a D.O., M.D., or D.C. license and would employ the same treatments more or less.

You are being extrememly childish, bordering on offensive and highly retarded.

 

I have received excellent care from chiropractors for some pretty serious injuries over my life. I currently see a chiropractor and am very grateful.

 

With that said, my chiropractor is not my doctor. I cannot designate him as my primary care physician within my health network. Nor would I want to.

A chiro does not provide the same treatments as an MD more or less. A chiro cannot prescribe drugs or do surgery (stuff that people generally associate with docs) and an MD does not adjust the spine. These differences are important for obvious reasons.

 

Again, I respect and appreciate my chiro as I do my doc. But to tell people that there is little difference between the two is potentially misleading and definitely not necessary. You are obviously proud of the fact you are a chiro--as you should be. It is an honorable profession with a history that is distinctly different from the MD field's development.

 

Best of luck to you in your studies; many people will benefit from your devotion to your practise.

 

True, but I'll wager your M.D. doesn't perform the surgery either. It's called referral, and it's done through a portal of entry physican, be it an MD,DC,DO,or ND.

 

Lifestyle modification, physical therapy, manipulation...hands on therapy will take care of most of your aches and pains, and if not....refer to a specialist.

 

I wish D.C.'s could prescibe drugs, and MD's would do something besides that and there was only one type of doctor. But that's just not gonna happen, and it's probably a very good thing since there is no right or wrong way to heal a person. Whatever works.

 

For neuro/muscular/skeletal i'd see a chiro

for nutrition i'd see a naturopath

for general diseases I'd see an MD

for a gunshot wound I'd go to the ER

for surgery, serious pathology, etc...i'd see the specialist who only does that.

for physicals, check-ups, etc...I'd strongly urge you to see a chiro.

[Alpinfox]

It must be a rosy wold out there being so ignorant. WTF is your problem? It's not the profession, it's the practicioner. Since when does nitpicking about a title make a good physician? It's about as stupid as only voting for democrats or republicans, soley based on their political party.

 

All I know is when I get my license I will be LEGALLY REQUIRED to practice under the scope practice for a licensed doctor, and my patients will be lucky to visit me and get the help they need. I'd be the same person with a D.O., M.D., or D.C. license and would employ the same treatments more or less.

You are being extrememly childish, bordering on offensive and highly retarded.

 

Hey Mike, I don't know if this was directed at me or Selkirk, but I was certainly not trying to be offensive. It was (and is) my understanding that at least SOME chiropractors have a "Doctorate" degree and are therefore "doctors". Are you saying that one can practice chiropracty without a doctorate degree? And are you also saying that as a chiropractor you have to practice under the license of a medical doctor similar to the role of a physician's assistant or nurse practicioner? I was under the impression that chiropractors operated under their own license.

 

Oh, ND's are doctors too.

 

Were you being sarcastic? Yes, naturopaths are "doctors" - as is anyone with a "doctorate" degree, though generally people only call MDs, NDs, and DOs, "doctor".

 

I recently starting seeing an ND as my primary care provider and would recommend it to anyone over a general practice MD. The amount of time, quality of care, and commitment to working with me to improve my health that I get from the ND far surpasses anything I've ever seen from an MD; especially an MD at an HMO. I can't imagine a case in which I'd rather see a general practice MD than an ND. NDs can prescribe all of the same drugs that a GP MD can by the way (I don't think a lot of people know that).

[Dechristo]

Back in the day, being the macho-little-retard-of-a-kid that I was, I'd pluck leaves of poison ivy, chew, and swallow to the horror of neighborhood kids... and my delight. I've never had a pathological reaction to the stuff.

 

You are being extrememly childish, bordering on offensive and highly retarded.

ML, if you're serious, you gotta know this is coming from you. You've listed the primary attributes of good spray.

 

And, of course, this thread deserves some lyrics from a great oldie:

 

You're gonna need an ocean (bump, bump-bump, bump-bump)

Of calamine lotion (bump, bump-bump, bump-bump)

She'll put you in dutch (bump, bump-bump)

You can look butchew better not touch

 

Poison Ivy-eee-ee-ee-eee

Poison Ivy-eee-ee-ee-eee

late at night when you're sleepin'

Poison Ivy comes a creepin'

a-arou-ow-ow

ound

[JayB]

I suppose there's something to be said for the placebo effect, and since most of the aches and pains that pre-occupy and worry us are transient and will go away of their own accord. Most studies seem to show that simply seeing someone that you believe posesses the expertise necessary to properly diagnose andn treat you will result in an improved sense of well-being that can translate into real increases in physiological health, and this goes for everything from witch doctors to neurosurgeons.

 

I agree with those that said that there are good and bad practitioners in every field, but I would have to disagree with anyone who suggested that this fact elminates very real distinctions between the philosophy and methodology that underly the various "medicines" out there. Put more bluntly - if the form or medicine that your doctor/healer/whatever bases your care and his diagnoses upon inherently untestable philosophical precepts - he is a quack. He may be a nice guy, care deeply about your well-being, and genuinely believe in what he's saying - but at the end of the day all that matters is whether or not the treatments he's using to address a specific disease or condition show a real effect in peer-reviewed, double-blind studies. End of story.

 

I personally think that people who rely upon vague, common-sensical nostrums like those that serve as the basis of homeopathy "Like cures Like!" are guilty of something bordering on criminal negligence at best. They may believe in what they are doing, but the test of whether or not something is ethical has less to do with whether or not someone sincerely believes in something, but whether or not a reasonable person is justified in holding such beliefs. If you go to a mechanic because you are concerned about the brakes on your car failing on a family road trip that will involve negotiating steep mountain roads, and he sees that the discs and rotors are shot, there's a leak in the lines, and the fluid is low - but he sincerely believes that the best way to fix them is to apply a coat of nail polish to the calipers - is this guy to be praised for his "alternative" approach to auto repair, or condemned as someone who - no matter how good is intentions or sincere his beliefs - is endangering those who have placed their trust in him?

[JayB]

It must be a rosy wold out there being so ignorant. WTF is your problem? It's not the profession, it's the practicioner. Since when does nitpicking about a title make a good physician? It's about as stupid as only voting for democrats or republicans, soley based on their political party.

 

All I know is when I get my license I will be LEGALLY REQUIRED to practice under the scope practice for a licensed doctor, and my patients will be lucky to visit me and get the help they need. I'd be the same person with a D.O., M.D., or D.C. license and would employ the same treatments more or less.

You are being extrememly childish, bordering on offensive and highly retarded.

 

Hey Mike, I don't know if this was directed at me or Selkirk, but I was certainly not trying to be offensive. It was (and is) my understanding that at least SOME chiropractors have a "Doctorate" degree and are therefore "doctors". Are you saying that one can practice chiropracty without a doctorate degree? And are you also saying that as a chiropractor you have to practice under the license of a medical doctor similar to the role of a physician's assistant or nurse practicioner? I was under the impression that chiropractors operated under their own license.

 

Oh, ND's are doctors too.

 

Were you being sarcastic? Yes, naturopaths are "doctors" - as is anyone with a "doctorate" degree, though generally people only call MDs, NDs, and DOs, "doctor".

 

I recently starting seeing an ND as my primary care provider and would recommend it to anyone over a general practice MD. The amount of time, quality of care, and commitment to working with me to improve my health that I get from the ND far surpasses anything I've ever seen from an MD; especially an MD at an HMO. I can't imagine a case in which I'd rather see a general practice MD than an ND. NDs can prescribe all of the same drugs that a GP MD can by the way (I don't think a lot of people know that).

 

Pax - do you know where ND's stand on vaccination?

[catbirdseat]

I think the reason people are seeking out alternative treatments is because the mental or if you will spiritual aspects of healing are not being adequately addressed by modern medicine. I suppose that is a result of the compartmentalization of internal medicine and psychiatry. Whatever the cause. Many people feel dissatisfied with the Western scientific approach to medicine. When new drugs are approved, witness the fact that the placebo effect in clinical trials is often equal to or larger than the effect of the drug being tested.

[Alpinfox]

I think the reason people are seeking out alternative treatments is because the mental or if you will spiritual aspects of healing are not being adequately addressed by modern medicine.

 

Bullshit. I recieve BETTER CARE for my knee problem from my ND than I ever did from an MD. I mean just BETTER CARE; I'm not a "spiritual" type of person and wasn't looking for that from my doctor. I just wanted my knee fixed. The MDs (I saw several) always said something along the lines of, "well, it ain't too fucked up, just stop running, hiking, carrying big packs, climbing and come see me in 6 months if it isn't better". The ND perscribed massage, Xrays, stretching routines, leg-length measurements, nutrition, hydration.... etc. I know there are great general practice MDs out there, but I think due to the insurance pay structure and HMOs and whatnot, they are hamstringed in their ability to give quality care much of the time.

 

Jay, many (I dare say MOST) naturopaths at Bastyr think that homeopathy is quackery and that it gives Naturopathic medicine a bad name. My personal take on it is that it is a form of psychotherapy. The intake sessions are often two hours long, and most of the therapy is talking about the problem. The actual "essential dilutions" or whatever they call them are obvioiusly placebo, but if they work, they work.

As for vaccinations, I'll ask, but I think there is a full spectrum of opinions on that in Naturopathic Medicine. I know that my girflfriend (a naturopathic medical student) supports most vaccinations, but I'm sure some don't.

[JayB]

I could be wrong here - but don't naturopaths attribute most disease processes to the accumulation of various toxins in the organs? That may indeed be the case - but I if my brief discussion of the matter with a fourth-year student at Bastyr is any indication of the methodology employed in devising and evaluating the efficacy of naturopathic treatments, they have some serious work to do.

 

The specific conversation came about when the said student was in a group of like-minded, organicky folks espousing the merits of the "Liver Cleanse" and bemoaning the shortcomings of the dreaded allopaths in this and every other regard. I had the bad manners to ask what specific toxins she thought had accumulated in the liver of the average person in need of a cleansing, what methodology they used to determing toxic thresholds, how the quantified them in the tissue pre-and post-cleanse, if they had ever conducted controlled studies on cleased-vs-placebo'd livers - etc - and I got quite a bit of hostility but not a whole lot else.

 

At the end of the day, if someone is using a scientific, rational methodology to treat disease and promote wellness, and they have solid empirical support for what they are doing - then it's not terribly important to me what their title is, but if those things are lacking then I have serious problems with what they're doing.

 

I'd have the same issues with someone who advocated the use of "Catholic Psychiatry" e.g. exorcism, in the place of "conventional" psychiatry for someone who was clearly suffering from severe mental problems.

[JayB]

Another question - not trying to be a prick here, just wondering: Is there a documented case in which Naturopaths or Homeopaths have developed a treatment for a disease with specific, measurable symptoms - diabetes, AIDS, Leishmaniasis, Leukemia, etc - where scientific medicine has failed?