another aid question

[underworld]

where do you practice nailing? (i challenge this thread to go at least 8 posts before shows up)

 

any routes at index ok to pound?

 

thx!

[DirtyHarry]

ask BobbyPeru about nailing at Index.

[tomtom]

Go find a dirty crack that isn't a route and pound away.

[sobo]

rock quarries... except O_W's!

[fenderfour]

If you are only interested in setting pitons and not climbing on them, go to a talus field. Pound away. Keep the pitons tied to something. I lost 2 when removing them.

 

If you actually want to climb on them, well, I dunno. There's the quarry at Index. You may still get lynched.

 

Vantage is a pile of choss. Hammer away!

[alexbaker]

nail whatever the fuck you want to. just respect everyone else that may use that area for whatever reason.

[corvallisclimb]

good route to practice nailing on is skin graph. mostly LAs to rivet ladder. aslo rather overhung

[catbirdseat]

If you are only interested in setting pitons and not climbing on them, go to a talus field. Pound away. Keep the pitons tied to something. I lost 2 when removing them.

 

If you actually want to climb on them, well, I dunno. There's the quarry at Index. You may still get lynched.

 

Vantage is a pile of choss. Hammer away!

Actually there are some cracks to the right of the routes at Zig Zag Wall that have frequently been used for that purpose.

[marcus]

With so many nailing routes going clean now using the wide arsenal of modern trickery, your time might be better spent growing your skill set in a different direction. Competent use of cam hooks, HBs, Aliens(including offsets, rad for pin scars),Zeros, Lowe Balls, Tri-cams, hand-placed sawed-off pins, and more aggressive hooking can enable you to forgo the hammer in most instances. Learning these now standard tricks of the trade will let you move faster - even in those spots where you really might have to occasionally pound one in. And it'll make those boring old 'trade routes' far more engaging!

[Dustin_B]

Go find a dirty crack and pound away.

Are you talking about aid climbing here or something else?

[JosephH]

I second Marcus' suggestion to figure out clean aid first, by the time you get c3 down consistently you'll probably be able figure out any pin work fairly intuitively...

[tomtom]

Just nail any sport climb and pull the bolts on the way down. Remember the wise man who said that fixed gear must have a question mark beside it.

[Alpine_Dreamer]

Anyone have hammerless aid cleaning tricks to offer? From the little clean aid bumbling I've done, I found cleaning gear to be a bit of a pain since every piece gets at least body weight on it. . . TIA!

[Dru]

Just cause the pitch was lead hammerless doesn't mean you can't use a hammer to clean.

[tomtom]

Anyone have hammerless aid cleaning tricks to offer?

DO NOT watch the DVD "Clean Walls" by Jeff Lowe and

Ron Olevsky. They spend more time nailing than anything else.

[MATT_B]

I think marcus hit the nail on the head (pun intended). If your just starting out in the aid game your time will be much better spent figuring out your systems and learning how to place clean gear. You need to learn to think outside the free climbing box. You don't need to have 100% bomber gear for every peice. For the most part it will be faster and less physically demanding to pass on the hammer. As for cleaning most of the time you should not need the hammer. If you need a hammer to clean most of your stoppers, your doing something wrong. That being said I do usually carry one while cleaning. I once bootied almost an entire set of stoppers off a wall with a little help from a hammer. Most of them had very very little use. As for the origional question, try a low road cut. You can't do any more damage then has already bee done. Be careful, the rock tends to be quite loose on those things. You dont want to bring anything down on your head. Have fun and don't even think about placing anything until your at least in you second steps.

[JosephH]

Dreamer,

 

SnailEye is right in saying if you need a hammer to get out most of your clean placements then you need to work on your placement skills. Placing passive pro is a craft bordering on an art and you do have to develop an eye for it. The perfect placement would be one you could dive or hang on all day and still have it lift out with no effort. That doesn't necessarily happen all that often, but really mating the pro to the geometry of the placement is key and paying close attention to fine details can make all the difference between one sticking and coming out easy. Aid is a great way to develop your craft and if you get down to where you can clean an aid pitch fairly painlessly your free climbing will get that much easier...

[telemarker]

SnailEye is right in saying if you need a hammer to get out most of your clean placements then you need to work on your placement skills. Placing passive pro is a craft bordering on an art and you do have to develop an eye for it. The perfect placement would be one you could dive or hang on all day and still have it lift out with no effort. That doesn't necessarily happen all that often, but really mating the pro to the geometry of the placement is key and paying close attention to fine details can make all the difference between one sticking and coming out easy. Aid is a great way to develop your craft and if you get down to where you can clean an aid pitch fairly painlessly your free climbing will get that much easier...

 

Sure, if you're placeing A1 nuts, but even body weight can set a nut pretty well. But if your stoppers become more sketch or flared, best bounce test them before committing, which may cement them in. Further, you better not be yarding up full force when cleaning my HB's and RP's. Use your hammer for a simple tap-tap, and it's out.

[layedback]

Speaking of hammers, I am looking for a light weight hammer for the purpose of cleaning nuts on clean routes, any suggestions?

[fenderfour]

Cheap Ball peen with a hole drilled in the end of the handle for a lanyard

[JosephH]

Sure, if you're placeing A1 nuts, but even body weight can set a nut pretty well.

 

I apply that approach to all placements at any level, aid or free. Will nuts set hard under body weight, sure, but how easily the come out is still very much a function of you placement skills regardless of the level of difficulty...

[telemarker]

[quote

I apply that approach to all placements at any level, aid or free. Will nuts set hard under body weight, sure, but how easily the come out is still very much a function of you placement skills regardless of the level of difficulty...

 

Frankly when I'm in the middle of my lead aiding or free climbing, I could care less how "easily" it comes out, I just want it to hold my ass in a fall, and if it's a little reluctant in coming out, I take that as a sign that I used the right nut in the right placement.

[JosephH]

I apply that approach to all placements at any level, aid or free. Will nuts set hard under body weight, sure, but how easily the come out is still very much a function of you placement skills regardless of the level of difficulty...

 

Frankly when I'm in the middle of my lead aiding or free climbing, I could care less how "easily" it comes out, I just want it to hold my ass in a fall, and if it's a little reluctant in coming out, I take that as a sign that I used the right nut in the right placement.

 

Well, I guess we just approach it differently. I generally find the best and most solid placements are quite often the ones that come out easiest. Also, I've always been "into" placing pro and pretty much view protecting a line as a game unto itself apart from climbing and every placement as a puzzle to be solved with as much craft/art as possible. How easily pro comes out for my second is also a big part of that craft as far as I'm concerned and one that bears directly on how fast we'll get up a pitch/route. I feel like I've done a lousy job leading if I've made life miserable for my second and we end up taking forever to get up something. As a side note I rope solo a bunch, so I am my own second quite often and have to deal with my own shit and am constantly refining my placements because of it.