2 questions about quickdraws...

[Geek_the_Greek]

Oh, as for how many, it really depends on the length of your routes, how sustained, and how close to your leading limit do you climb. I mean, you'll place anywhere from 0 (easy runout slabs or alpine) to 20 (rope-stretching, scary and exposed alpine maybe? Don't know if I've ever actually placed that many) pieces on a single pitch, to be broad. I think my first rack had 10 draws, all dogbones. This was great to start out (cragging in Squamish), but eventually limiting. If I had to start again I'd buy 5 dogbones and 5 Mammut yosemite draws (wire/superthin singles) for a first rack.

[Dru]

This is the type of thread where it would really be illuminating to see the climbing resume of the folks posting here. How many years leading, places they climb at, grades, etc. Democracy is nice and all, but all opinions are not equal.

 

 

Yes - how many NOLS courses have YOU taken? How many windshirts are in your quiver? How many retail hours have you logged? Do your climbing accomplishments come with a celebratory spreadsheet and T-shirt? Do people complain about you to the Bellingham Herald? All of these pieces of information MUST be provided before you can tell someone how long their draws must be.

[Blake]

I think it was Trogdortheburninator who pointed out in another thread that on these super straight routes, the main purpose of longer draws is simply to get you past the piece. The angle the rope makes as it comes away from the rock to your body has a tendency to pull out on pieces. This is why I'll extend a tripled sling to full length on a cam, but just put a draw on a nut that is set nicely.

 

 

I'm not following here, anyone care to elaborate?

[Geek_the_Greek]

 

Mock all you will, but the Newbies forum can be a vast source of shite advice. "Yeah, from the 5 bolted 5.8's I've led at Vantage I can tell you that all you need is 15 dogbone draws and a helmet. You're all set!"

[Cobra_Commander]

I think it was Trogdortheburninator who pointed out in another thread that on these super straight routes, the main purpose of longer draws is simply to get you past the piece. The angle the rope makes as it comes away from the rock to your body has a tendency to pull out on pieces. This is why I'll extend a tripled sling to full length on a cam, but just put a draw on a nut that is set nicely.

 

 

I'm not following here, anyone care to elaborate?

 

He's saying he's worried he will pull his gear out horizontally as he passes over it, because the connection to the gear is shorter than his connection to the rock by his legs. You should also spray all your gear placements with rat poison so the elves won't get in there and pry on your cam triggers. In fact, every cam should be extended by it's own 60m rope as a backup.

[Dru]

Rat poison causes microfractures in aluminum!

[dylan_taylor]

1. Quickdraws or slings?

My selection of draws is a random assortment of whatever I have found, and not lost, over the last few years, and whatever i started with once upon a time. About 50% sporto-draws, and about 50% shoulder-lengths trippled up. (s0me are mammut skinneema, some are older spectra slings, and some are tied 9/16")

 

2. How many is good to start out with? I suppose it probably doesn't matter how many you buy, if you assume that your partner will have some too, but if you can afford it, buy enough to make your gear self sufficient. Thay way can choose to take your rack and draws if you know your partners rack is held together by duct tape and weedwacker cord. And even dozen ought to be a good enough amount. Thats what I try to have on hand. Though many will disagree, tied 9/16 shoulder lengths work fine in the alpine, are cheap, and are easy to untie when bailing, tying around trees, making v-threads, etc. Just check your knot tails periodically.

 

As far as stories of gear pulling out cuz somebody used dogbones instead of extended shoulderlengths, i agree with a lot of people here that it is silly to blame gear falling out on draws that are too short. It was probably shitty gear to begin with. When climbing a crack that will take lots of nuts, I think it is a good idea to "trap" the nut placements by placing a cam (with short draw or no draw) at the beginning of the pitch or the beginnning of the section that will go mostly nuts, then place another cam with short or no draw at the end. This makes the rope run in a very straight line over the nut section, and short draws even on nuts should never provide enough levering force to pop the nuts out. The cams with short extensions should be in bomber parallel placements that will facilitate omnidirectionality and dissuade walking.

[SandPounder]

Rat poison causes microfractures in aluminum!

 

Rat Poison is aid

[dbconlin]

The cracks don't need to be vertical (just straight) to obviate the need for long slings. Also, the whole route need not be straight. Use long draws where the route angles and short draws where it's straight. Saves time + energy to use draws or not have to extend your trippled slings on every piece of gear.

 

RE: the original question. If you are primarily sport climbing, get a dozen draws and maybe four 24" (60cm) slings. If primarily trad/alpine climbing, get ~10 24" slings and couple of doubles and take a few quickdraws along. The mammut 8mm slings are obviously the best.

 

Of all the advice on this post, follow this one.

[gosolo]

Here is wat I posted on a different site on his same debate that hopefully describes the history of QD's as I remember it. BTW, QD's can also be those BD spectra ones that arent as stiff as dogbones.

 

OK, I will try and summarize and give you a simple history thing from my decrepit and wandering mind. Long ago in a time before sport, before trad (my god how can that be?) many of us used either slings tied of webbing (usually 1") and if not needed then we used a biner to clip directly into the piece. On bolted slab climbs we sometimes used two biners and clipped into the bolt that way. I remember tieing quick draws with about 2 feet of webbing which gave about a 6" loop. (6" is about the length of a dollar bill, not the short end for you guys that have to lie!) This was in the early 80's. When sport climbing started ramping up about mid 80's these things called quickdraws started hitting the store shelves. At first I was leary, what the hell was this piece of gear out that only served such a limited purpose?

 

Voila, the purpose was to be able to easily clip your rope into a piece quickly and effeciently. Quickdraws do that job better than anything else. That is why most people use them. That is why even on TRAD routes they are a very nice thing to have. Necessary? Not really, but damn nice to have for that one job. Next time you are sketched out on a 5.12 trad route and your last piece is a few feet below you, go ahead and f&&& with your tripled trad slings, where the lower biner does not stay in the right place. Then, I think you'll know what we is talking about. If you are climbing moderate to easy trad routes, you dont need them. But when placing and clipping gear is really hairy, and your one hand is slippin out of a manky jam, I think you will be glad to have them.

 

Bottom line is getting god gear and using the right tool for the job. Those tripled tingies are great until you find yourself all maked out fiddling around on a hard 5.11 or 12 trad route.

[Dr_Crash]

So, uh, I only climb 5.10s, should I quadruple my slings then? Or use starched dogbones?

 

drC

[JosephH]

Actually, clipping cams directly and ignoring appropriate slinging can bite you hard, even at the creek...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

from: Creek / Ruby Fall commentary...

 

 

[Kevin_Matlock]

[Distel32]

posted soooooo long ago and the gear ripped because it was the wrong size......

[JosephH]

That's certainly an opinion you could come to but I'd disagree with it...