jefffski Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 I joined a team of 3 climbers yesterday in squamish. They seemed to be a competent bunch but a scary incident has left me scratching my head. I climbed an easy 5.9 trad route and set up an anchor with a directional because the bolt anchors were a bit off to the side. one of the people i was climbing with cleaned the route and reset the anchor so i could tr 5.11 that was directly below the anchor. he then lowered to the ground and i tied in. well the 5.11 was tough and i hung on the rope a few times at the crux til i finally figured out the move and finished the climb. when i got to the top i was horrified to see the rope stuck in the gate of the locker. i had been held by a single non-locking biner! When i returned to the ground i calmly and gently mentioned the state of the anchor. His response, and i quote " oh, sorry about that". not a word more. i left shortly afterward. What would have been your response if it was you that set the anchor (not that anybody here would ever do that of course )? Quote
mec Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 I would have pulled out my shotgun and taken care of him... Quote
archenemy Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 I would have knocked the fucker out. Just kidding. I would have pulled the rope and told him its his turn to free solo the route. Quote
Dru Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 seriously though i had been held by a single non-locking biner this is why we make anchors redundant. in this case, the redundant piece, the non-locking biner, did its job after the locking biner didn't. don't get your knickers in a knot over it, worse things happen every day. Quote
archenemy Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 Did the guy seem to know that he was careless? Or was he shocked that this happened? I agree that backups are important, but having redundancy in climbing partners is important too. I think that's why they teach beginners to check eachother's harness to be sure its double backed, etc..? Quote
goatboy Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 So was the locking biner not locked? Were the biners opposite and opposed? Quote
jefffski Posted July 15, 2005 Author Posted July 15, 2005 "Did the guy seem to know that he was careless? Or was he shocked that this happened? " no, he was quite nonchalant. Quote
goatboy Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 Another way of looking at it is the personal responsibility lens. You say that they "Seemed to be competent," but what had you observed that you were basing that on? Also, did you have any sort of conversation at all about what constitutes an acceptable anchor, or just assume that they do it the same way you do? Quote
jefffski Posted July 15, 2005 Author Posted July 15, 2005 So was the locking biner not locked? Were the biners opposite and opposed? the biner was not locked--the rope was in the gate. yes the biners were opposite and opposed, but the second biner was a non-locker--that was my choice when i set up the anchor initially. Quote
jefffski Posted July 15, 2005 Author Posted July 15, 2005 Another way of looking at it is the personal responsibility lens. You say that they "Seemed to be competent," but what had you observed that you were basing that on? we did talk a bit before we went out and without drilling them, but just through the normal kind of conversation about their climbing experiences i did get the impression that they were very experienced. Also, did you have any sort of conversation at all about what constitutes an acceptable anchor, or just assume that they do it the same way you do? i'm not sure of the relevancy of this question--surely not locking the carabiner would have been a mistake. i doubt that he put the rope in the biner's gate. i assume that the gate opened and the rope ened up in the gate. Quote
jefffski Posted July 15, 2005 Author Posted July 15, 2005 Shit happens when you climb at Penny Lane close but it was murrin. i would have been suspect if that was their limit but they said they wanted to have an easy day and teach the 3rd person how to lead. Quote
Ireneo_Funes Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 I'm having a hard time picturing how a rope moves if it's pinched in the gate of a biner. Quote
archenemy Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 He's saying it didn't start as pinched. It got pinched. Quote
sobo Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 I'm with Dan on this. I'm assuming the rope got pinched at some point while jeffski was working the moves. After working the moves, surely he would have noticed that the rope was accumulating slack (since he was on TR) as he ascended to the anchor. Wouldn't this fact have been a call to action, or at least some cause for concern? I don't know the route, so I don't how close the crux is to the top-out, so I may be all full-o-shit on this. Quote
Ireneo_Funes Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 Yeah, sobo, that's what I was wondering too. Anyway, when one of my partners (someone I know reasonably well) does something I think is unsafe, I've got no problem calling them on it. I hope that they're as frank with me whne I do something foolish. When it's someone who's basically a stranger, it's a little harder to do this. I try to always check out their anchors, how they belay, etc. Obviousy jeffski didn't have the opportunity to check out the TR anchor after the other guy reset it, though. Quote
jefffski Posted July 15, 2005 Author Posted July 15, 2005 I'm with Dan on this. I'm assuming the rope got pinched at some point while jeffski was working the moves. After working the moves, surely he would have noticed that the rope was accumulating slack (since he was on TR) as he ascended to the anchor. Wouldn't this fact have been a call to action, or at least some cause for concern? I don't know the route, so I don't how close the crux is to the top-out, so I may be all full-o-shit on this. this is a very good question. i never noticed any slack acculmulating. so if the rope was pinched in the gate of this non-locked biner could the rope still slide? if not then maybe the rope jumped out just as i approached the anchor. the crux was a fair ways below. my original question still sits--what would your reaction have been if it was you who had set the anchor? i think one person has replied that a simple sorry was enough. any others? Quote
goatboy Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 I would have apologized, said something to the effect that I recognize the mistake I made (not locking the biner), and that I'm glad it was a learning experience instead of an injury. Quote
ncascademtns Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 Quote: my original question still sits--what would your reaction have been if it was you who had set the anchor? i think one person has replied that a simple sorry was enough. any others? "It's your turn" Quote
specialed Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 i had been held by a single non-locking biner! The horror. Quote
archenemy Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 I think we should ask Miss Manners. I am not kidding. Quote
olyclimber Posted July 15, 2005 Posted July 15, 2005 I thought you were Miss Manners, and Cobra Commander was the Grammar Gestapo Quote
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