knelson Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 "...and are those Happy Meals effective for adult women?" Depends on what the toy is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 "You may know me by my avatar on Ascensionist..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 "Uh, yeah, I'd like a number seven, two number fives, and a number six for the little lady, hold the ketchup." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 It's friday...we're bored so my department (all females) and I are sitting around and discussing our WORSE first dates. I'm sure some of you have some GREAT stories!! Here's ONE of my many.... dude asks me out for dinner, but not what sort of food I like. no biggie..I'm not picky and will eat anything. We go to the resteraunt of his choice, (plan to meet there) he shows up 10 minutes late. (typically I only give people 8 minutes then I take off, but he was freak'in hott so I waited longer). We go inside, he sits down, doesn't offer to push my chair in, no choice on where to sit, just points and has me sit. I'm like...ok...no manners..that's trainable. We then order, I wanted the sundried tomato pasta...nope. He ordered for me. Without ASKING! I got some chicken pesto thing. which he then helps me eat...even though I didn't actually ask for his help. I go use the restroom and give my girlfriend the out call...for you men who don't know what the out call is, its when you call a friend from the bathroom and ask them to call you back in 5 minutes with a crisis that I have to go save, car broke down, date ditched her, you know..something. I go back to my seat and he had the wait staff clear my plate. I was like..hmm..where'd my plate go...I wasn't done?!? He said but your thin...and I like you that way, so I didn't think you needed to eat anymore! I'm like WTF!! wowser. He then proceeds to bluntly state...I'm an aethiest...your not some bible thumping chick are you? I was like..wow. bold. THEN THE BILL COMES!! As my friend calls. I answer my phone, play the Oh my gosh, I'll be righ there to save you role. Tell the guy I had to go...and he, SLIDES THE BILL TO ME and say's "hey, you wouldn't mind picking this up would you?" I was like...umm...yeah, no problem. So I pay the bill and get ready to leave and he asks me if he can kiss me! OMFG! I'm like...no. I don't kiss on the first date. YIKES! I know theres better (well worse) stories out there! let's hear them!! am i suposed to be embarassed about that? you aint that great a kiser anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 ...doesn't offer to push my chair in... to the women...do women expect guys to push their chair in? what about opening car door for them? why is this a "manner" issue and why is it important? it''s maybe sweet and nice to do it the first couple of times, but how long do you expect the guy you go out with to do this for you? I find people that area serious about outdoor sport tend to be very self reliant...just not when they are in the city? Just the fact that you are self-conscious about doing the polite thing is awesome. Stories like Maries are too common. A woman's self reliance cannot be affected by someone opening the door for her. If her self image is defined by something like that, then she's not self reliant or self assured. Open the door for her until she makes it clear to you that she doesn't want you to do so anymore. Simple as that. If you're lucky, you might find a lady who takes pleasure in your thoughtfulness for the rest of your time together... No matter how a woman responds to you opening the door or pushing in the chair, you are never in the wrong when you are respectful and polite. Sincerely, Miss Manners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 This always reminds me of something that happend to me in grad school. I was walking over to the student union one day and, as I was approaching the door, I heard someone walking behind me. Being 'trained' by my parents to open doors for whomever, I did so. Turned out it was a girl and she categorically refused to go through. I suppose she thought I was 'oppressing' her or something because I'm part of the white male eurocentric patriarchy.... Which brings to mind the observation that people here rarely say 'thank you' for simple acts of kindness. I guess that makes me a fossil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 This always reminds me of something that happend to me in grad school. I was walking over to the student union one day and, as I was approaching the door, I heard someone walking behind me. Being 'trained' by my parents to open doors for whomever, I did so. Turned out it was a girl and she categorically refused to go through. I suppose she thought I was 'oppressing' her or something because I'm part of the white male eurocentric patriarchy.... Which brings to mind the observation that people here rarely say 'thank you' for simple acts of kindness. I guess that makes me a fossil. my point is that it's not about the specific act. if you open doors for people b/c that's the way you do things i just think it's totally lame to judge a guy by a set of guidelines for chivalry that were established eons ago. there's plenty of ways a gentleman can be thoughtful, courteous, and make you feel like the center of the world w/o pulling out your chair. judge the book not the cover. btw--i'd like fries w/my happy meal. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I was set up with this girl in Bellevue. Her girlfriend set us up and thought we would be a good match ( I dont know why). She was a cheerleader for the Sonics or something. She was used to dating rich 7 foot tall basketball players. It was a double date and my friend was a total pig to the women. Me and her had nothing to talk about and I projected a relationship with her would involve going bankrupt. It was a very awkward day. Although we did have fun playing pool, we both knew it wasn't going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 This always reminds me of something that happend to me in grad school. I was walking over to the student union one day and, as I was approaching the door, I heard someone walking behind me. Being 'trained' by my parents to open doors for whomever, I did so. Turned out it was a girl and she categorically refused to go through. I suppose she thought I was 'oppressing' her or something because I'm part of the white male eurocentric patriarchy.... Which brings to mind the observation that people here rarely say 'thank you' for simple acts of kindness. I guess that makes me a fossil. my point is that it's not about the specific act. if you open doors for people b/c that's the way you do things i just think it's totally lame to judge a guy by a set of guidelines for chivalry that were established eons ago. there's plenty of ways a gentleman can be thoughtful, courteous, and make you feel like the center of the world w/o pulling out your chair. judge the book not the cover. btw--i'd like fries w/my happy meal. thanks It is the specific act though. Manners are like laws in that they codify or set a standard for human behavior, they are a kind of norm. What is considered to be "mannerly" is highly susceptible to change with time, geographical location, social stratum, occasion, and others. I don't thing opening a door for a woman was set up so long ago. But so what? The chief chivalric virtues of the 14th century included piety, honor, valor, courtesy, and loyalty. I would posit that these virtues are as important today as when they were first codified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 If you treat people nice all the time, you have nothing to worry about when you go on a date. Open doors for everybody whenever appropriate. Push in the chair for her, or your mother, or a work partner, it's just nice. Get the bill whenever possible, whether it be for a friend or your date. The rule here is to also let people be kind if they want to get the bill, whatever. Just stating the obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 If you treat people nice all the time, you have nothing to worry about when you go on a date. Open doors for everybody whenever appropriate. Push in the chair for her, or your mother, or a work partner, it's just nice. Get the bill whenever possible, whether it be for a friend or your date. The rule here is to also let people be kind if they want to get the bill, whatever. Just stating the obvious. Amen. Makes me wish I weren't such an asshole though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I took this girl out in high school one night about one week before Christmas. 1986. First date. I borrowed the parent's car, and wanted to watch the submarine races from the hills overlooking Eugene on the west (by Marcola). We get up near the top, and it is midnight. We go down the wrong logging road, so I start backing up. All of a sudden the car stops and flips over the side, stopped by a tree on hillside. We are hanging upside down in our seatbelts. Shit. If this happened about 100 yards to either side of this accident we would have rolled multiple times becuase those were clearcut areas--thank God for trees. We are 20 miles from the nearest phone. We walk about 10 minutes and by gosh 3 hicks drive up drunk off of 2 liter wine coolers. (Yes, back then, they did have wine coolers in two liter jugs). So, we hitched a ride with them. They were kind enough to drop us off at my house about 35 miles away. I ended up marrying that woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I took this girl out in high school one night about one week before Christmas. 1986. First date. I borrowed the parent's car, and wanted to watch the submarine races from the hills overlooking Eugene on the west (by Marcola). We get up near the top, and it is midnight. We go down the wrong logging road, so I start backing up. All of a sudden the car stops and flips over the side, stopped by a tree on hillside. We are hanging upside down in our seatbelts. Shit. If this happened about 100 yards to either side of this accident we would have rolled multiple times becuase those were clearcut areas--thank God for trees. We are 20 miles from the nearest phone. We walk about 10 minutes and by gosh 3 hicks drive up drunk off of 2 liter wine coolers. (Yes, back then, they did have wine coolers in two liter jugs). So, we hitched a ride with them. They were kind enough to drop us off at my house about 35 miles away. I ended up marrying that woman. but the question is did you open the door for her before trying to kill her? archenemy-- i agree with you that if everyone had good manners it would solve a lot of problems in the world. however, i think that judging a date by societal "norms" or codifying anything rubs me the wrong way. judge your date for who he is. i guess if you need a traditional style guy, then you better insist he pull out your chair. personal choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 So how do I judge a date for who he is without judging him by what he does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 So how do I judge a date for who he is without judging him by what he does? oh i'd judge what he does. i guess that i don't place much value on traditional rituals such as door opening therefore those aren't the actions i'd judge. how does he speak to people? does he listen? is he interesting? is he thoughtful? some may argue that door opening is thoughtful but it's mostly mindless. did he offer up a glass of water w/o be asked b/c he noticed i had consumed all of mine since my food was spicey? i think it's more about the specific actions in specific situations that matter to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 ...you are never in the wrong when you are respectful and polite.Politely Correct = PC The chief chivalric virtues of the 14th century included piety, honor, valor, courtesy, and loyalty. I would posit that these virtues are as important today... Hear, hear! Though, they are important most in their extension, not in the judging of due receipt. i think that judging a date by societal "norms" or codifying anything rubs me the wrong wayThere is freedom in this notion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 i guess that i don't place much value on traditional rituals such as door opening therefore those aren't the actions i'd judge. how does he speak to people? does he listen? is he interesting? is he thoughtful? some may argue that door opening is thoughtful but it's mostly mindless. did he offer up a glass of water w/o be asked b/c he noticed i had consumed all of mine since my food was spicey? i think it's more about the specific actions in specific situations that matter to me. I agree with watching these actions. We are talking about the same thing though--speaking repectfully and being a courteous listener are the verbal forms of opening the door. You are using the same framework. offering a glass of water is the same as offering a seat on the bus--naturally the actions must suit the situation. And if the door issue were mindless, I doubt we would have had as many men post here about it. They have questions, they have systems, they have reasons. They thought about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 They have questions, they have systems, they have reasons. They thought about it. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 And if the door issue were mindless, I doubt we would have had as many men post here about it. They have questions, they have systems, they have reasons. They thought about it. I doubt it. Many (most?) of us don't think about things like doors or toilet seats, except when women mention it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 And if the door issue were mindless, I doubt we would have had as many men post here about it. They have questions, they have systems, they have reasons. They thought about it. I doubt it. Many (most?) of us don't think about things like doors or toilet seats, except when women mention it. Okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 And if the door issue were mindless, I doubt we would have had as many men post here about it. They have questions, they have systems, they have reasons. They thought about it. I doubt it. Many (most?) of us don't think about things like doors or toilet seats, except when women mention it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foraker Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 by the same token, i wouldn't mind a little space on the sidewalk so that i didn't have to step out into the street in front of that hurtling semi just so you and your girlfriends don't have to stop talking about shoes for 2 seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyladycaver Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 marie....if I'd been you and paid....i would have demanded a little uh....action from the hottie...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 by the same token, i wouldn't mind a little space on the sidewalk so that i didn't have to step out into the street in front of that hurtling semi just so you and your girlfriends don't have to stop talking about shoes for 2 seconds. Anyone else voting for the semi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_Simpkins Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 People don't look so hot after they treat you like crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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