Firefox vs. Opera vs. MS IE

[mattp]

I'd have to say that it seems to me that WordPerfect has been a far better program than Word, in every release for the last 15 years (I haven't tried the latest versions of either).

[thelawgoddess]

i used firefox almost exclusively for several months at home and work. i was pretty impressed ... until firefox started crashing on me. and it wasn't just every now and then like ie has in the past. it was 4-5 times/day! it didn't take long for me to switch back. sometimes i still use firefox but i'm not as gung-ho about it anymore. i really only miss the tabbing function ...

 

have you tried upgrading since then?

i did at the time. checked for updates/upgrades/what-have-you, but it was all up-to-speed. even removed it all and cleaned a few things p and reinstalled new from their site and still had problems. it was probably just some strange virus that computer had but frustrating nonetheless, especially since everything else worked fine.

[cj001f]

Security, schmecurity; viruses schmiruses.

 

 

 

Viva!

 

 

Software, schmoftware, compatibility, schmopatibility.

[iain]

Clearly you have not used a Mac recently. If you had, you would realize they are miles ahead of Windows in terms of network compatibility and standards compliance, and any open source project compiles readily on the system. Mac OS X is a work of art in terms of ease of use, modern function, and high performance. The hardware is pretty much untouchable in design.

[b-rock]

The hardware is pretty much untouchable...

 

So is the cost!

[thelawgoddess]

Clearly you have not used a Mac recently. If you had, you would realize they are miles ahead of Windows in terms of network compatibility and standards compliance, and any open source project compiles readily on the system. Mac OS X is a work of art in terms of ease of use, modern function, and high performance. The hardware is pretty much untouchable in design.

 

well, unfortunately most workplaces do not offer a choice.

[mec]

I'd love to have a Mac at work!! Hell, I'd love to have one at home too. PC's have been too scattered to make the hardware and software match. Apple has considerably helped the Mac by keeping its mfg and operating system within Apple (However, this probably did hurt sales). I rarely hear of any mac user having issues with hardware compatibility. The biggest complaint is that there is not enough out there, but that has been changing recently.

[iain]

The hardware is pretty much untouchable...

 

So is the cost!

 

That used to be true, but there are some great options these days, such as the Mac mini, iBooks, and even a few of the iMacs. In addition, you have to consider what you get for the money. A lot of PCs appear to be cheap, but often a lot of extra stuff is needed to come close to the specs of the Apple systems. A true quality PC with good hardware is actually quite expensive, and you are forced into a sub-par operating system if you do not want to tinker with Linux distributions.

 

And tinker you will, as Linux, a powerful, artfully-designed operating system, is still on training wheels when it comes to helping grandma with her email.

 

Out of the box, the consumer-end Macs have the software used on the most important servers on the internet. Yet my mom and dad were able to get one up and running to organize their photos and use the web within 20 minutes, no headaches at all. In fact, they loved it. Mac minis start at around $500. Pretty sweet if you ask me.

[archenemy]

I'd love to have a Mac at work!! Hell, I'd love to have one at home too.

I'd love to have Piccard at work!! Hell, I'd love to have him at home too.

[mec]

So, you like the bald guys!!!

[JoshK]

[quote

Not to get into some lameass geek-war but I bet half those "bugs" you attribute to your application are actually Windows making it's presence known.

 

It is totally accurate to say MS products are almost universally sub-standard. Word crawls on a lot of mid-range hardware. It's a word processor. Holes in Explorer routinely allow executable code as if the exploiter is sitting at the keyboard. Versions of MS Office have "called home" with users' personal information. They just don't give a rat's ass about your security, or the performance of their products. They are not trustworthy, and they are stagnant when it comes to innovation. They play a constant game of catch-up.

 

I also don't appreciate seeing the network logs rack up a bunch of entries whenever I fire up MS Word. WTF.

 

I wrote software professional for 7 years, and several years as an amature before that. I stepped thourgh the windows, IE, and pretty much every other component's source code, line by line, debugging, day in and day out for a majority of that time.

 

From that experience I can say (with actual experience, unlike everybody else that complains) that 99% of software bugs, both 3rd party and MS non-OS software is a bug in the software and *not* in Windows itself. It happened that I would discover bugs in Windows and report them but that was a tiny % of the time.

 

Take that for what you want, but I can say that first hand experience shoots that assumption.

 

I am obviously not going to convince a pro-mac, anti-ms person that the software is not sub-standard but I will again say it is not in my experience if actually judged by the same standard. Alex listed some other fine pieces of commercial software that are shit on a stick. There is not another brand of **commercial** software that I have used where I don't experience more bugs, overall, than MS software. This doesn't touch the fact that I am using the MS software way more often as well.

 

For the vast majority of open source software I will admit I don't have enough experience to actually say whether I think it is better or not. As for Macs, I totally won't touch the Mac vs. windows debate. I think macs are great and are also vastly superior to most everything out there. I see that more as a personal preference. I just like to use a windows PC more, and that is about the only reason.

 

As for MS apps "calling home", every single instance I have seen they have asked me if I want to report information and it states if it is anonymous or not. When apps first started talking over the internet a lot with "home base" I admit there were probably abuses, but I think this was pretty widespread, not just MS. With the current focus on privacy there is no way MS is deliberatley doing that kind of stuff. The risk is just too great. About the only software that does it now is spyware, and hopefully that will all be put out of business soon.

 

Matt, I think a word processor is a pretty personal preference. For me, MS word is way better. I have always thought of WordPerfect to be shit on a stick, but I guess that I just happen to like Word more. I think the sales would probably back people's preferences up. You can't blame the early victory of office on a monopoly, cause it caught up and passed all other office apps at lightspeed.

[archenemy]

So, you like the bald guys!!!

Sure, as long as they're blonde.

[Alex]

As for MS apps "calling home", every single instance I have seen they have asked me if I want to report information and it states if it is anonymous or not. When apps first started talking over the internet a lot with "home base" I admit there were probably abuses, but I think this was pretty widespread, not just MS. With the current focus on privacy there is no way MS is deliberatley doing that kind of stuff. The risk is just too great.

 

As I work as a test engineer for Microsoft, and I would be very interested to hear about any legitimate* cases where you think a piece of Microsoft software is violating your privacy or sending your private data to Microsoft Corporation without your consent.

 

* legitimate meaning data exchange you and I can reproduce and verify.

 

I work daily with a Microsoft crash analysis program called "Dr Watson". These are the little dialog boxes you see after an application or OS hang or crash, asking you to "send report" or "don't send". You are always given the option to "don't send". I've had some people describe this to me as the app "calling home", but please don't mistake the function of this program: it is voluntary and it is used solely to diagnose and fix serious AV and hang problems with all software that runs on the Windows OS, not just Microsoft software or OS. The information you send *COULD* contain some private data, in a snapshot of memory related to the crash at the time if requested for a specific callstack (not the default), and *COULD* contain very specific Registry key settings if the product group at Microsoft trying to diagnose the crash requests it for a specific call stack. However those of us that work with this data at Microsoft must follow very specific protocol when handling this data because of this, to protect our customers privacy. I and all my colleagues take customer privacy very seriously. If you are interested in learning more about the Dr Watson program, pls PM me.

Edited May 4, 2005 by Alex

[archenemy]

I work as a test engineer.

Are you single?

[JoshK]

I work as a test engineer.

Are you single?

 

Probably so, and not by choice.

[Alex]

I work as a test engineer.

Are you single?

 

Sorry, married. Next!

[snoboy]

Opera>>>Firefox>>>IE

 

That said I think that Opera or FF are both way better choices, and I won't harp on you for choosing FF over Opera, though I can't imagine why you would want to.

 

There are reams of back and forth over this very question in blogs and forums all over the net. Basically you will find that people are zealots, and that both browsers are very good alternatives.

 

Good Opera site: 30 Days to becoming an Opera Lover

 

Click banner for more info:

 

[mec]

Ahhh, so you are an opera man, but not a zealot since you won't harp on me . I basically chose FF at the time because it was free. I know I can get Opera for free by watching ads, but that is one thing I love about FF is a good adblocker...

[snoboy]

Give Opera a go, you may find that you actually feel like paying for it... especially once you spend a day dowwnloading extensions to make FF as useful as Opera... (Oops starting to harp...)

[mec]

I can hear the harp strings being plucked.

I may give it a shot, The extensions are a great way to customize FF, but you are right, they are a pain in my rear to get setup...

[slothrop]

As I work as a test engineer for Microsoft, and I would be very interested to hear about any legitimate* cases where you think a piece of Microsoft software is violating your privacy or sending your private data to Microsoft Corporation without your consent.

 

* legitimate meaning data exchange you and I can reproduce and verify.

 

What's the deal with the piracy-detection scheme that MS Office for OS X uses? After my firewall started getting lots of hits on port 2222 while working in a hipster coffeeshop, I looked into it and found:

 

http://www.ciac.org/ciac/techbull/CIACTech02-003.shtml

 

Is this sort of thing really necessary? How many other Microsoft products do this? I'm sure there is some clause buried in the EULA that says a "licensee" agrees to have their product ID broadcasted everywhere, but who would read it, much less understand it? I guess this old news, and more of a security problem than a privacy problem, but one leads to another.

[snoboy]

Hey mec, if you do try it out, then set the ads to Google text ads, you will barely notice them...

[iain]

It's a good question, slothrop, since anyone interested in pirating the software knows about it. Basically it sends out a broadcast on UDP 2222 to find others on the network, then the apps use a random TCP port to listen for serial numbers. It is easily blocked with a firewall, and many argue that it is the wise thing to do.

 

For example, it would be quite simple for someone to simply sniff the traffic, and terminate your applications by faking a serial number conflict. It's a pretty cavalier way to do sn checking in many peoples' opinions.

[olyclimber]

If you have a firewall on your system that allows you to control outbound (not just inbound) traffic, then you could just shut that port down I suppose. But is does seem like a pretty weak way to implement copyright protection.

 

Speaking of which, I bought a CD the other day and it had copyprotection on it. I was going to return it, but the CD store wouldn't take back my opened CD. So I wrote the CD manufacturers, and they said to copy the CD to my harddrive with licensing using Windows Media Player (.wma). Then use Media Player to burn a CD. Then used the burned CD to import as MP3s via iTunes. What a crackerjack solution.

[archenemy]

Speaking of which, I bought a CD the other day and it had copyprotection on it. I was going to return it, but the CD store wouldn't take back my opened CD. So I wrote the CD manufacturers, and they said to copy the CD to my harddrive with licensing using Windows Media Player (.wma). Then use Media Player to burn a CD. Then used the burned CD to import as MP3s via iTunes. What a crackerjack solution.

Crackerjacks are never the solution.