I've been humbled

[allthumbs]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tyrone Shoes:

Trask on the other hand... well, if I could I would personaly Neuter him. I could do it so he wouldn't even feel it.

---

You're as full of shit as a Christmas goose. The way I see it, you're probably well acquainted with other men's balls, because with your shitty attitude towards women, I'm sure you've never slept with one. Have a great evening asseyes.

 

[ 11-02-2002, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: trask ]

[To_The_Top]

Anna

If you do go back and climb, hire a certified guide, for one on one instruction, just a suggestion (I have done this a few times). I know little of rock climbing and when I get back into it I'm not going to power through it, but learn the right way the first time.

You can actually become a advocate for safe climbing, having been through this all and see that you can learn from this.

As for JK breaking your heart, thank goodness you had the moment to tell him later, and remember the ones that tell you do so because maybe they care, others would talk behind your back.

I am glad you were not hurt.

TTT

[Tyrone_Shoes]

Hey Necronomicon,

 

Bloody good post on page 8

[Anna]

YOU BLEW HIM OFF LIKE IT WAS NO BIG DEAL.

 

BUT if you want to learn you have to let people teach you.

 

What are you talking about?

 

I was the one feeling unsafe at L-worth! I asked to climb with you and Greg and company from the getgo! I didn't lead Givler's nor did I want to...but at the end of the first day when we met up witcha all, Greg thought that I should give Saber a try. We didn't do it cuz of time constraints and yes, I was still interested in giving it a go on Sun. It's my stupid fault for attempting it. Give it a rest already...

 

What Jason said in his posts about my "character" is what broke my heart hey, kick me while I down would ya? I won't climb again but I'm still sorting out what went wrong with my setup...and guess what? I've been referencing Long's Anchor book that I bought one his suggestion after that day at Smith-go figure...now leave me alone.

[sk]

your voice, your coice... too bad though realy. I was trying to be a friend to you. what use is a friend to whom you can not tell the truth?

[Tyrone_Shoes]

Anna

 

Keep in mind that the experience you shared isn't only about you.

 

Your experience is a vehical that brings to light a larger bigger issue regarding safety and attitude.

 

Your only getting hung here half as much as you think you are.

 

This is a discussion about peoples attitude towards learning and self assessment.

 

You have admitted your wrong, good for you, but you only need to do it once, so stop reliving the mistake. Regroup and move on.

 

Take a side and contribute to this discussion.

 

I sincerley hope you don't stop climbing due to your experience and you better not base that decision on what's written on this website.

[glacier_dup1]

A,

 

Now is not the time to curl up in a hedgehog-like ball to advice and/or criticism, or throw your hands up and say, "I'm quitting." I know that I'm working with only two data points here - your own assessment of your experience, and Kruger's anecdote from the Smith trip, but it doesn't appear to me that a lot of learning and growth went on between those 2 trips.

 

Actually, someone made the call back as far as Page One of this interminable topic that you made a poor judgement call regarding your own skills. Sure, it's a blow to the ego when someone says, 'You fucked up,' in no uncertain terms - as explicitely explained by Mr. Shoes and Chips up above - if they are in a position of experience or supervision - i.e. instructor- then they are well within their rights to call you on the carpet, so you do not create a hazard to yourslf or others. The teachers I look back the most fondly on are the ones who were the toughest on me - those who weren't - I remember neither them nor their lessons.

 

Likewise, experienced climbers often behave the same way, and can be crass or aggressive when they see people puuting themselves in harm's way - Honestly - if I see people making mistakes while climbing, I assess what the likelihood that they will take advice is, and either give it or walk away. I've responded to people with everything from a polite, 'You may want to try this...' to "You're a shithead, and I don't want to be around to render first aid," depending on their response to advice. Sure, I can be an asshole, too.

 

And if someone asks for advice, I give it, to the best of my knowledge. Hell, I teach and have guided a little - I can't help it. But I also know that I can't be responsible for everyone around me, nor should I try to be - we are out there putting ourselves in risky positions - it's how we mitigate those risks that will have a bearing on our lives and those of our partners.

 

A goal for you now should be to take ignorance and bad habits and replace them with knowledge and good habits. And to assess the 'why I climb' question. What do you want to get from climbing, what have you received from it before? Is leading a part of what gives you what you want?

 

Remember, the more you know, the better it gets.

[Mr._Chips]

I am glad to see that many of the people who have relevent and informed experience are connecting on the heart of this matter. Coddling is not the proper approach here, and getting upset is not either. Read through the posts and try your best to 'see' that people care, and it takes a stern voice to render that care sometimes. jkrueger happened to dust the fingerprints off some past experience that had your name written all over it. Like it's been highlighted, you need to listen to the people who are offering advice. Tough love hurts, consider it an 'intervention'. People give interventions to friends to HELP them. So ya, I have not climbed with you either (Hi snoboy), but I still see the value in you as a person. Print off the discussion and highlite the stuff that makes sense, whether you like it or not, (leave out the nonsense from guys like trask though) and try and distill the theme here. Read Necronomimcons posting, Glaciers, SHoes, Muffy, There is something there, you NEED to see it.

[Mr._Chips]

Snoboy. This has not so much to do with making a mistake. It is about the mistakes being made due to improper training and experience and NOT listening to others when they blatently point it out to you. It is about NOT assessing your own skills and knowledge and it's about embellishing them, which never helps.

[Tyrone_Shoes]

To Anna,

 

Take what you read here with a grain of salt. It's all just words on a screen.

 

I can almost garentee that if we met at the airport, and went flying, we would have great time.

 

You wouldn't suspect in million years that I was the asshole canadian.

 

don't forget your GUMPS

 

CB

[Anna]

I have learned my lesson...this is simply not my bag, baby. I realized what I have done wrong, I will try, always try, to practice more situational awareness and vigilence in everything I do. Yes, the lesson has been learned....and I want to make clear that I have never blown someone off who offers to teach me something new. JK told me how to set and anchor way back when and I TOOK IT IN, 4 months went by because of my heavy commitment to the FS, and when the time called for me to put that knowledge to the test, I couldn't perform. I did not choose to stop climbing because of the posts created on this thread but from my own deductions on how important climbing is or will be to me, these posts did give me some light on the situation though. I may climb someday again but I have other passions that I want to put my energy into right now. Sorry all for being rude back there,

I guess it is pretty hard to take "I just blew him off..or..knowing her "character", she is an accident waiting to happen so I'm gonna walk away"

Climb on....

[allthumbs]

Nice work everybody, you sure "helped a brother".

[Tyrone_Shoes]

Trask, what the hell are you talking about?

[allthumbs]

I read ALL 10 pages of this one. Shit! I need two Excedrin. The way I see it, you guys were more interested lambasting someone ad nausium, than really "hearing" Anna. I really don't think Anna was necessarily looking for comment or advice. I may be wrong, but I think she was simply sharing this event to help herself deal with it. Similar to when a friend asks for advice but actually wants none.

 

I read these 10 pages while trying to put myself in her place, and while I cannot speak for Anna, I came away feeling she was humiliated and put down something fierce.

 

Sure, she needs to reassess her climbing and the skills necessary for a "safe" (is there such an animal?) climb. I'm sure that she will do so sometime in the future.

 

Anyway, that's why I said what I said. Okay, you can call me a fucker now.

 

Later, trask

 

[ 11-03-2002, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: trask ]

[Tyrone_Shoes]

Trask and others alike, I think this discussion became heated for a few reasons but for me and a few others it's a simple question of truth.

 

This "coddling" as Chips puts it is completly useless. Snoboy, Off White, Trask and many others, are you guys trying to get Anna in bed? WTF?

 

Well maybe there is your answer for the unexplainable Coddling that is going on. (sorry anna)

 

Comon guys, For Pete sake (if not for Anna's sake) and for the sake of anyone who relys on you for strong, sound, frank advise.

 

Give this advise, and give it so it can be heard. No don't break friendships over it, just break the bad habbits.

[allthumbs]

You took the words right out of my mouth.

tyrone = trask

hehehe

[sk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anna:

I have learned my lesson...this is simply not my bag, baby. I realized what I have done wrong, I will try, always try, to practice more situational awareness and vigilence in everything I do. Yes, the lesson has been learned....Climb on....

---

it is none of my business, but I do believe this topic has been played out. We have all tried to convay our points and oppinions in the best way that we could. Some people have hurt feelings and some have said things publicly (umm me) that perhaps would have been better said in privite. I would like to believe that Anna is true to her word and hope that you all can take your personality issues else where. Anna says she has learnd her lesson. May she go on to face everything in her life with wisdome and grace.

[salbrecher]

Anna,

I can't help but wonder if you'd give up flying as easily as climbing if you have close call?

[Tyrone_Shoes]

Interesting point SALBRECHER.

 

I was thinking the same thing but thought I should keep my "cake hole" shut for a while.

[allthumbs]

Good idea retardass.

[Dru]

yeah im stuck in a office on a sunny sunday too

 

this thread could one day surpass the famous chinese muir on politics thread if we all try

 

as for people making newbie mistakes, here is a little story about my friend "Solrac". Solrac took up climbing for the first time ever one fall, and climbed a few times at Squamish (TR) then came on a road trip to J Tree with a bunch of us at Xmas and did seconding and TRing there. He also goes to the gym 2x a week and does TRing there.

 

Come January we have a dry spell and a bunch of us ditch university one sunny weekday and head to Squamish. Solrac is keen to try leading and has 2nded a few routes and practiced placing gear and building anchors while standing on the ground. So we go to the Smoke Bluffs and Solrac leads Davy Jones Locker a 5.6 with gear placements and bomber rests every 5 feet.

 

Stoked from this lead he wants to try something harder so we go to Mosquito a classic hard 5.8. Solrac leads off up this but finds without the good rests its harder to get gear in. So despite my advice he starts trying to run it out to the next rest. He puts gear in then liebacks thru the crux and is finger traversing a flake with the full on Elvis shake happening when his last piece of gear falls out - classic gumby mistake he put in a cam too small for the crack and it walked till it opened up and then fell out. so hes looking at a ground fall but doesnt know it and as he sketches up the flake both feet cut out and he hangs by fingers for a moment with feet scrabbling then does a desperation lunge to a hand jam and pulls up to a big ledge and me screaming at him GET GEAR IN NOW ASSHOLE CAUSE YOU NEARLY DIED THERE!

 

So who is to blame in this case? Me or him or what? Solrac went on to become a good gear placer and lead 5.12d before giving up climbing for mtn biking a few yrs back.

 

The only advice I have is learn from your mistakes and those of others. No matter how much you prepare for your first leads at some point you have to actually do them and at that point if you screw up you can die.

 

What that has to do with Annas circumstances im not too sure cause i didnt read pages 3-6 so I have no idea where Chippy and Shoes came in on?

 

But my advice to Anna would be not to give up climbing yet but to practice anchors etc a hell of a lot more. Also to realize that if'n she doesnt improve safety that eventually word will get around she's a sketchball and she will have to give up climbing cause no one will climb with someone dangerous unless they are full on sketch themselves.

 

Sorry for rambling gotta work on the slideshow now.

[CraigA]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anna:

Yah, Craig....I'll ease back into it. I dont think I will stop climbing all together. Top-roping for a while though till I read some good books, set up a lot of practice placement/anchors under keen tutors. I think it will always be in the back of my mind though.....maybe that's a good thing

---

No, that's a GREAT thing!

 

Good luck and remember......enjoy!

[Dru]

quote:

---

Originally posted by snoboy:

 

I would never judge a climber on one incident. One of my buddies who is sometimes on this board came _very_ close to falling off the top of the apron here in Squish (about 7p). I would still rope up to that person.

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I think you are just after the drill that person owns snoboy

 

I do believe that very incident was discussed on this bulletin board back in Sept. 2001 and someone could even look it up. saved by a real vegetablebelay if I recall correctly - caught a tree on the way down.

[Mr._Chips]

Dru, perhaps you should read the whole thing and get a true gist of what's being talked about here, that way your comments are more relevent. Secondly, did your friend Carlos (anagram) learn anything about running things out, cause a climber could stitch mosquito up pretty good. When I am belaying a friend who has intermediate skills at trad leading, I usually pipe up that another piece would be a great idea, it can be situational though.

[Off_White]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tyrone Shoes:

Once again, forget about being rude or arrogant, It has nothing to do with it. NOTHING. It's that simple, sorry was that rude?

---

Bullshit, you don't believe tone has nothing to do with it. You advocate for drill sergeant style education, and you clearly believe that being abusive, demeaning, and rude facilitates learning. While it serves a purpose in military training where you are trying to break someone down so they will follow orders without thinking, for the most part the arrogant posture you admire is mostly about silly dominance and submission games. (and no, I'm not interested in your bedroom games).

 

As far as your suggestion that I am "coddling" Anna because I want into her pants, you really are an ignorant twit, aren't you?

 

Please Tyrone, whatever you do, never breed.