I've been humbled

[Tyrone_Shoes]

To ANNA, TRASK, OFF WHITE, IAIN, and anyone else who thinks their shit don't stink.

 

I think I've more than proven that im a superior pilot over Anna. I wanted that known, for all to see.

 

Moreover, I would like everyone here to know that I'm superior to every last one of you in every way concievable.

 

There you go, asshole right.

 

If you people can't accept constructive advise in the true spirit of helping others not make dangerous mistakes, then the HELL WITH YA!

[sk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lambone:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anna:

Hey Thanks for the reply Mister Chips...it took a lot of time to build up enough guts to post about how utterly stupid I was and now you have made me feel like shit. YOU have never made a wrong desicion in your life I guess. Many times we are in situations that we just wing it but I KNOW THAT IT WAS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I felt good about climbing the route to start because of the difficulty rating and the fact that I had lead before, but I WAS WRONG.....it was a mistake! Be nice.

---

Anna,

 

As RuMR and others suggest, I wouldn't be too hard on yourself about what happened, as it was probably a result of your more experienced partners decision to put you on the sharp end.

 

That route ain't 5.4

 

Shit happens, people make bad calls, if you live through it you come out wiser climber.

---

bottom line, you can not teach someone who is unwilling to learn or advise someone who will not listen.

[sk]

Oops...

 

[ 11-02-2002, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Muffy The Wanker Sprayer ]

[jkrueger]

quote:

---

Originally posted by shredmaximus:

Well if she had made it to the top of the climb she would have had bolts as her anchor so no problem there.

---

Flashback: May 2002, Smith Rock, OR

 

A group of 5 people use cc.com to organize a weekend of climbing at Smith Rock. We decide to spend the first day cragging at The Student Wall of the Gorge. We do a couple of climbs, and then Anna decides that she would like to work a TR of Astro Bunny (5.10b/c). As she does not have anchor gear, she borrows a cordelette and 4 locking biners from a fellow climber. Both I and the other climber ask if she is comfortable setting an anchor with the supplied gear, which she says she is. So, she walks to the top, sets an anchor, and comes back down. I give hear a belay on the climb, which she is unable to finish, and lower her back down. Anna gives me a belay, I reach the top, and discover that the anchor is textbook wrong - the cordelette is looped between biners connected to 2 bolts, and the rope is running through 2 biners that are clipped over top of the cordelette. I tear down, walk to the bottom, and immediately make Anna aware that her anchor was "spooky" and proceed to instruct her on the correct way to construct an equalized anchor using a cordelette. At this point she admitted that she needed to read more books and gain more knowledge of climbing systems.

 

The next day Anna did her first trad lead on Spiderman Buttress, having only done one previous sport lead and having minimal trad experience. Feeling that Anna was an accident waiting to happen, I left the scene. This accomplishment was posted on cc.com, to which she received broad praise, support, and accolades.

 

Knowing Anna and being aware of her character, I saw this accident coming a long time ago. Sometimes, being kind and polite does not do the job - some people just have to learn things the hard way. I am thankful that this accident did not have more serious consequences.

[To_The_Top]

Nice switch!

[sk]

my fault I forgot to log out after I posted

[Mr._Chips]

Anna, you said it yourself, "I don't have an ego with climbing but I do with flying" or something of that nature back in the postings.

 

jkrueger, You seem to see what I am doing here and have direct experience to back it up.

[Mr._Chips]

Reading that posting by jkrueger only re-affirms my instincts and pre-conceived notions about Anna's experience and ability. Things like this can not be simply swept under the rug. I am not trying to be a jerk, just the voice that so many others are afraid to speak or selectively choose not to listen to.

[sk]

I agree... and yet I am a total wimp

 

climbing is one of those things that to excell at you have to be bold. I feel that boldness must be tempered with knowledge and experience, or you die.

[Mr._Chips]

Or you can kill someone else too. I think most of you will read this page and hopefully sit back and realize the underlying and often overlooked reality of the situation. I am not one of those people who speaks his mind at the crags (unless it's a perilously desperate situation that warrants immediate attention), I chose to pack my gear up quietly, mind my own business, (cause it is'nt), and leave the situation/scene. The forum is easier, people are not caught up in the 'real life' situation, and under normal conditions (rare), a 'conversation' can ensue, and people can take/give opinions, guidence, advice, criticism, etc.

[Mr._Chips]

Going against party line can have it's disadvantages, but again, it's a voice of concern and awareness. Otherwise it can become like "THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND" or would it be "THE BLIND LETTING THE BLIND LEAD".

[sk]

two thing to remember folks...

 

1) you have to keep your wits about you when you climb.

 

2) there is a MAJOR difference between confidence and OVERCONFIDENCE.

 

In order for all of this to work, for us to be a comuinty, for all of us to meet each other and climb and have rope ups and other fun things we all have to take personal responsability. We have to be honest with ourselves about our own ability levels and with our climbing partners. If we do not do this, this forum looses it's integraty and we don't get to do this any more... we will become like the dinasours.

 

(I know integraty, what am I thinking? but realy almost everyone one I have met here has been solid and straight up about there skill level and what they are comfortable with. had it been or if it were to become the other way arround, i doubt I would be interested in posting here or climbing with those I met here. Your word is your bond and your honnor. I think even trask would agree with that. yes I know we joke arround alot and yes I am one of the worst, but when it comes to actualy climbing I hold it as my responsability to my self and my climbing partners to represent my ability and experience as honestly as possible)

[Off_White]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tyrone Shoes:

To ANNA, TRASK, OFF WHITE, IAIN, and anyone else who thinks their shit don't stink.

---

Dude, it smells like strawberries, how did you know?

[Necronomicon]

(Page top, it seems.)

 

Shitty climbers die. Mistakes cannot be made. I wish I had some empathy for you, Anna, but I don't.

 

Mistakes in judgement, like routefinding errors, can be forgiving, but mistakes involving the mechanics of climbing are not. The rope is life, and if you fuck it up, if you clip in wrong, or set a bad anchor, you're toast.

 

Anna represents a segment of the climbing community that make mistakes, the ill-trained novices that climb without having a clue, and say things like "I should read more books" when they touch death without knowing it and walk away. Luckily, her mistakes didn't kill her. More importantly, though, is that her mistakes didn't kill someone else. Like me.

 

When I spend time at the crags and run into gapewads new to the game, I get as far away from them as I can. They drop shit. They set anchors wrong. They use fixed protection in a way that can damage it for the next user. New climbers are a threat to my safety.

 

But I was a gapewad once. Have I made mistakes? Sure. We all have. But I can think of only one that involves a mistake with the rope. I stumbled on a pile of rope, untied, after finishing an aid-solo pitch. I wasn't that close to pitching off, but it scared the shit out of me.

 

That's it. Nothing else. I learned to climb from an old salt, and when he wasn't around, I climbed like I could die at any second. I've spent hours equalizing the legs of a coffee table to the legs on the couch, and setting C-Z pulley sytems to drag chairs across my living room. I've drawn diagrams of anchors I've set, and analyzed them for areas of improvement. I've developed a sense of flexability that allows me to set up a safe rope system in the worst choss.

 

My advice to you is to start over. Quit climbing. Forget everything that you know. Flush your system. Start from scratch. Learn what safe is, and be that way every fucking time you rope up. This isn't a game. If you fuck up again, you better hope you get killed. Because you may have to stand in front of someones loved ones and explain to them how you made a mistake, how you fucked up and took that person out of their lives forever. Have fun.

 

[ 11-02-2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Necronomicon ]

[iain]

what on earth are you guys doing here this weekend?

 

I learned an obvious thing today, don't climb thin stuff unroped over sharp rocks ! Cut open my hand and arm, smashed my hip and my shin on a rock and had to belay the rest of the day but was able to get a few pitches in before wimpering home. Now I feel and look like I was in a 5th grade brawl. Now I'll just have to stick to some wimpy AI4 tomorrow bwahahaha!

[sk]

necranomicon just scred me so bad I think I will stay home tomorrow tooo (good points btw)

 

iain check your e-mail

[snoboy]

How many of you have actually met Anna?

-not me

 

How many of you have never made a mistake while climbing?

-not me

 

How many of you read the subject line "I've been humbled?"

-I did

 

Instead of telling Anna she shouldn't climb or that she is a danger to the rest of the climbing "community", maybe some helpful advice would be more germane.

 

Climbing is elite, because it is dangerous, and sometimes difficult. How about helping a newbie along instead of blasting her for her attitude? I think she has probably learnt a lot from this near miss.

 

I would never judge a climber on one incident. One of my buddies who is sometimes on this board came _very_ close to falling off the top of the apron here in Squish (about 7p). I would still rope up to that person.

 

Rather than dismissing someone because of their attitude, I would ask what they learnt from their mistake, and see if that jived with my take on things. Anna might never lead again, or she might become the most solid trad climber in the world.

 

I almost rapped off the end of a rope once many years ago. Does that mean none of you would climb with me? To me it just means that I am extra careful when rapping.

 

I guess it is all in how you read things, as I do see some good points in almost everyones posts, but I think some of them could be a little less arrogant. Spray does nothing in this kind of forum. It does have its place though.

 

Less judgement and more guidance could be useful.

 

[ 11-02-2002, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: snoboy ]

[sk]

snowboy-

 

I have met and climbed with anna many times and have gently tried to encourage her to get more knowledge... I even tried to encourage her to NOT lead that day. Not to be a bitch BUT I DO KNOW ANNA> jk and I have tried to teach her and help her many times. I told her that i would not go over there and climb with her and the others over there becuase i did not feel safe with any of there leading ability on climbs that I know to be more difficult than the rating.

 

now I have to read the rest of your post.

 

sk

[sk]

jk's point is that this was, in our, experience not a one time thing. and yes I do and will continue to climb with anna. I just realy hope she learns from this and gets some books and learns to learn from the people arround her offering solid knowledge and experience.

 

If you want to learn you can not tell people that you already know.

[sk]

I'm not sure how you could miss it... you all did forget to trail a rope on givlers... two pitches, three climbers I don't mean to be a bitch shred, but you should know better and if you don't you should climb with someone who does. you were, in my oppinion, the most experienced climber in that group. Just because people are louder than you doesn't make them better.

 

[ 11-02-2002, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Muffy The Wanker Sprayer ]

[iain]

best thing about that thread is that Dennis Harmon has the last word

[sk]

shred... I in no way think you are responsable for anything that happened. I asked anna that day if she was sure she wanted to lead... meaning I didn't think it was great idea. perhaps I should have been louder or said more, for that I am sorry.

[sk]

NO!!!!! Anna should not have asked for it... how can you asses someone else when they do not represent themselves acuratly????

[iain]

I would say if a gear-ripping screamer, where the only pro that protects someone from splattering their brains is pro they did not place, doesn't wake someone up, no amount of harsh words on this site will do someone any further good. A long fall is scary and can give you the shakes. If that did not do the job than there is no hope. As far as I can tell, it did the job.

 

-Iain

[Fence_Sitter]

WTF!?!? seriously..it was her fucking choice...if she was a xtraght outta da box newbie, then you should be a lil responsible, but seriously she had led before and she knew her limitations and she blames no-one else and neither should you guys...even you shred, even though it was your rack, it was her decision... climbing is fucking dangerous and accountability for your partners should never have to include telling them what their experience level is...