New Bolts at Mt. Erie

[Bill_Simpkins]

I'm so glad they put bolts here. There seems to be no natural protect anywhere in site!

There are many new anchors placed on the Summit Wall. I've climbed all these routes for years without these new bolts. Even worse, some drunk hicks will probably just steel the hangers anyways.

[catbirdseat]

Perhaps unnecessary, but they might, after all is said and done, reduce erosion on trails and reduce damage to the trees.

[Alpinfox]

Perhaps unnecessary, but they might, after all is said and done, reduce erosion on trails and reduce damage to the trees.

 

CBS, I don't see much erosion between those bolts and that tree. As for your second point, a sling birth hitched around a tree doesn't do much (if any) damage.

 

edit: that was accidental, I swear.

 

The one time I climbed at Erie, I remember there were three or four anchor stations (two bolts each) within about 25 feet of each other along the top of some short slabby wall to the climbers right of the powerline wall.

All four climbs could have shared one single anchor setup a little higher up.

Edited February 14, 2005 by Alpinfox

[Blake]

The routes/bolts are not very well planned out, but it has got good views and the climbs are within a few minutes of the road, and it is frequently dry. I'm not justifying all the bolts, but I do like Erie. (for what it is)

[plexus]

If a number of stations keep the Mountaineer classes congregated at that one section, then I am happy. I've climbed there for years and that is the one place that needed an extra set of anchors.

[catbirdseat]

CBS, I don't see much erosion between those bolts and that tree.

I don't know specifically where that is. Only that there are places with severe erosion problems.

 

As for your second point, a sling birth hitched around a tree doesn't do much (if any) damage.

 

I am aware of that. My point is that some of the newbies who go there don't. Besides, those rappel anchors look a lot less obtrustive than a bunch of multihued slings on a tree.

[Alpinfox]

 

I don't think that is a rap anchor (no rings). Maybe the hangers are those fat metolius rap hangers, I can't tell from the picture. In any case, I thought just about everything at Erie had a walkoff so rappelling is usually not necessary.

[catbirdseat]

Yep, they look like those fat Metolius rap hangers.

[Dru]

metolius rap anchors don't come in bare metal colour.

[pope]

Perhaps unnecessary, but they might, after all is said and done, reduce erosion on trails and reduce damage to the trees.

 

More bolts ==> less erosion = bullshit.

 

Try this instead: More bolts ==> more traffic ==> more erosion + more assholes + whatever b.s. the assholes wish to "contribute" to the cliff.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Perhaps unnecessary, but they might, after all is said and done, reduce erosion on trails and reduce damage to the trees.

 

More bolts ==> less erosion = bullshit.

 

Try this instead: More bolts ==> more traffic ==> more erosion + more assholes + whatever b.s. the assholes wish to "contribute" to the cliff.

 

Dunno, Pope, sounds like there's plenty assholes without the bolts!

[lancegranite]

Strange, even thou this site has a traditional slant to it, nobody really complains about clipping a bolt...why would you?

[AlpineK]

Is that at an already popular top rope area?

 

If it is than I'd say you've gotta choose between 2 bolts on a rock face or the slow but steady decline of a pretty cool tree caused by climbers throwing their rope around the tree and trampling the root zone.

 

I know most of you are all big tough rock climbers and don't give a shit about trees, but something like the tree in the picture takes a long time to grow and get all funky looking. One or two climbers probably wont trash the tree but a constant stream of climbers will drastically shorten the life of that tree.

 

The environment of Mt Erie is more than just the craggs. Without cool looking bonzi type trees it would be a lot uglier.

[EWolfe]

I agree.

 

I'm gonna take the POPE bait

 

The area already has too much traffic because of:

 

A: You can drive to the top of the mountain

B. The view is spectacular

C. Drinking spot for locals

D. It is a popular make-out spot for the kids

E. The area is popular for hikers

oh, and

F. It is popular with local climbers, with a mix of trad and bolted lines

 

You want to start comparing impact with a few bolts??

 

[Alex]

oh nevermind...

Edited February 15, 2005 by Alex

[slaphappy]

Yep, they look like those fat Metolius rap hangers.

 

Nope.

[jon]

Perhaps unnecessary, but they might, after all is said and done, reduce erosion on trails and reduce damage to the trees.

 

More bolts ==> less erosion = bullshit.

 

Try this instead: More bolts ==> more traffic ==> more erosion + more assholes + whatever b.s. the assholes wish to "contribute" to the cliff.

 

Hey Pope I got a story for you. I was at this coffee shop on Sunday with a couple of friends, and I very politely asked (imagine me being polite) these two people sitting at a rather large table if they minded if we shared the table, to which this bitch replied "As long as you're not obnoxious."

 

Point is you don't have to clip bolts to be an asshole.

[plexus]

I don't think that is a rap anchor (no rings). Maybe the hangers are those fat metolius rap hangers, I can't tell from the picture. In any case, I thought just about everything at Erie had a walkoff so rappelling is usually not necessary.

 

So you got all of that on your one trip to Erie? Obviously you never climbed on Black Wall, Pigeon Stool Buttress, the NW routes on Orange Wall, Skyline Rib, Lumpy Crag, Shady Hallow Area.

 

You sure have a lot of opinions on the place for having climbed there once. I've climbed at Index maybe six times yet I never judged the ethics that the routes were put up or the lines chosen to be there. Index has far more bolts than Erie does, for that matter so does a small little climbing area like Little Si. If you don't like it, don't climb there. Who are you to spray on the work some people have done to their "home crag"? You want to see sickly bolting...go check out some of the stuff in Icicle Canyon, Rifle, Tulomne Meadows, The New.

 

What I'm saying is what you see in your one visit is completely different what somebody sees when they climb there 40-50 times a year. Dallas has spent a lot of his time, effort and money in that place to make a climbing area for all range of climbers. Hell like many unsuspecting victims, I mean partners, I've scouted out routes with him, whacked trails and found myself runout into the death zone with him astutely observing, "yeah I think it needs a bolt there."

[Alpinfox]

Hey plexus,

I didn't express a "lot of opinions" about Mt. Erie in my post. I stated that in the posted photograph, the anchor did not look to me to be a rappel anchor. It is obvious in that photo that the tree could easily be used as an anchor thereby obviating the need for the bolts. AlpineK made a good point that using the tree as an anchor may trample the "root zone" and injure the tree; something I hadn't considered.

 

I then said that I had only been to Erie once (full disclosure) and that I saw one area that was IN MY OPINION overbolted. That is the only opinion interjected into my post.

 

I'm sorry if I ruffled your feathers with that one opinion. I have a great deal of respect for Dallas Kloke and others who put their time, energy, and money into route development. However, bolting is a very contentious issue and I feel we climbers should try to limit bolting whenever possible in order to avoid conflict. In my experience at Erie (limited as it is) I saw what I consider to be overbolting in one area. I don't think I have to visit an area 40 times a year to know that 4 bolted anchor stations within 25ft is "overbolted". (I believe this was the "Sunshine Slab" area, but I'm not sure). You are correct that I have not visited all of the crags and I did not mean to cast judgement upon the entire area.

[pope]

I agree.

 

I'm gonna take the POPE bait

 

The area already has too much traffic because of:

 

A: You can drive to the top of the mountain

B. The view is spectacular

C. Drinking spot for locals

D. It is a popular make-out spot for the kids

E. The area is popular for hikers

oh, and

F. It is popular with local climbers, with a mix of trad and bolted lines

 

You want to start comparing impact with a few bolts??

 

 

 

I've seen this kind of logic presented before. "The area already sees tremendous traffic....the area is already tainted since there is a ski area in the same valley....it's not exactly wilderness, it's just a crag.....Did you know Royal Robbins placed bolts?....etc."

 

Question, Mr. E. When you see litter along side of the road do you (following similar logic) contribute to it?

 

[plexus]

Sunset Slabs was bolted that way as a place for The Mountaineers to go to teach their class. And if you have ever been at Erie on the day they take out well over 100 students, you'd be happy that it is that way because it congregates them at only several locations as oppose to having them spread all over the mountain. I believe several of the crags at Icicle Canyon are the same way.

 

Sorry I jumped down your throat, my line of work makes me.....edgy sometimes. I've learned that working in the media business, everybody has an opinion on very little knowledge. And I get tired of all of the judging. Kumbaya my friend...kumbaya!! =)

[Alpinfox]

 

Actually when I saw that area (Sunset Slabs) I assumed it must be exactly that - a Mountie practice area.

 

I wonder how people feel about that as a justification for what many people would consider overbolting?

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Hey, the more crags get bolted, the fewer gumbuses there are clogging up the lines at the mudpile, eh?

 

Drill 'em and fill 'em, baby!

[pope]

Sunset Slabs was bolted that way as a place for The Mountaineers to go to teach their class. And if you have ever been at Erie on the day they take out well over 100 students, you'd be happy that it is that way because it congregates them at only several locations as oppose to having them spread all over the mountain. I believe several of the crags at Icicle Canyon are the same way.

 

So, the bolts concentrate the crowds? On special days when the Mounties come to play? And this is why I need to amend my opinion and realize that bolts improve the quality of my life? Did you ever consider that the bolts encourage the crowds?

 

 

Sorry I jumped down your throat, my line of work makes me.....edgy sometimes. I've learned that working in the media business, everybody has an opinion on very little knowledge.

 

 

Well, my friend, what you haven't learned yet in the media business is how to infer on just how much knowledge my opinion is based.

 

 

And I get tired of all of the judging.

 

 

I'm sure it's a lot of work. Try resting instead.

[AlpineK]

So in the picture above Eric show us some park like setting, and I assume he asks us to ponder the beer cans ect dumped in the ditch. He then trys to draw a parallel between the trash in the ditch and bolts placed at a crag.

 

Lets look at the picture

 

There is no aspect of this picture that has not been altered by humans. There are roads and driveways, houses and cars, and the drainage system is clearly not natural. On top of that the grass was planted and mowed by humans and that row of trees next to the street was clearly planted by humans.

 

In the first picture in this thread you see a natural setting with 2 man made and placed bolts.

 

In the late 70's I was in the mounties basic class and the lot of us loaded into a bus and went to Erie to practice climbing. At the time I don't recall any bolts but there were a ton of people.

 

Basically there is a long history of big groups climbing at Erie. The classes were there before the bolts, so saying that bolts bring people is bullshit. If anything the trails that have been built and the bolts limit the human impact on the entire crag area.

 

Like I pointed out earlier the tree in the picture is at least a few hundred years old, but if climbers trample it it may only last another 20 years and nothing will regrow in it's place.