rhyang Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 I've been climbing couloir ice in the Sierras this season with a Petzl Aztar, and it seems to work well for me, in terms of grip size, swing, penetration in blue ice, and light weight in general (21 oz). So now I'm looking at my first season of waterfall ice climbing (total newbie), and am thinking of just using two aztar hammers, at least to start with (ebay is so great). My winter outings are probably going to be limited to places like Lee Vining, Provo Canyon, or Ouray if I'm lucky (or Banff if I'm really lucky). However, I've been told by some that this tool is actually too light to use on waterfall ice in the winter. Any idea if a newbie ice climber can get away with aztars in places like these ? Quarks look very nice, but I wonder if that's going a little overboard right now. Quote
DPS Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 WI 6 was climbed years ago using straight shafted, curved pick tools. The Aztar is so much nicer than tools of even 5 years ago. I'm sure they will serve you just fine. Quote
bDubyaH Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 aztars work fine on waterfall ice in alaska. i imagine they will work just as well in cali Quote
Mark_Husbands Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 which gullies did you climb? get to Mendel? Quote
rhyang Posted November 15, 2004 Author Posted November 15, 2004 Dana, North Peak, and a smaller practice gully. Mendel sounds awesome but probably way the hell out of my league right now... Anyhow, cool thanks. So psyched for ice this season !! Quote
Mark_Husbands Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 North peak gully (right) was my first alpine climb. i used asolo yukons w/ smc strap-ons and 2 70cm rei mtn. axes. i was scared shitless. took us hours of picket pounding to go up 800 ft. went back some years later, climbed in like an hour, soloed over the N. Ridge of Conness and back down the E. Ridge to the car. (Recommended). Amazing that, even for a weekend warrior hack like me, your idea of what is possible can change so dramatically. I've climbed a lot of Sierra moderates, if you ever want info feel free to email me. Quote
Dru Posted November 15, 2004 Posted November 15, 2004 Stemalot has some and I seem to recall he thinks they are too light for full on waterfall bashing, when compared to the Quarks anyways. Quote
rhyang Posted November 15, 2004 Author Posted November 15, 2004 Amazing that, even for a weekend warrior hack like me, your idea of what is possible can change so dramatically. I've climbed a lot of Sierra moderates, if you ever want info feel free to email me. Cool. At my level becoming a weekend warrior hack is an aspiration which will take me at least several years to achieve Quote
Jens Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 I think it depends on your style. I climbed a few pitches with em' and thought they were a touch light and weren' t very damp. With an added head weight (which you could make) and some homemade rubber coating, I think they would be fine tools. I'd say- save your money and use em'. The tool won't hold you back. As was elluded to earlier, WI6+ was led with straight shafted wooden tools. Tools that were roughly the same as were used by Heckmair on his 1938 ascent of the Eiger. A lot of folks think the latest tool design will help them move up one number grade on the WI scale. I think this is pretty far from the truth. Just my two cents. have fun. Quote
Stemalot Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 I use Aztar for alpine but waterfall ice seems to be just fine as well. I am a bit of a weight freak, so the less the better. If you are going to be climbing waterfall ice extensively, I think the Quarks might still be better tools for that. Quarks requires less wrist flicking to get a solid ice penetration than Aztar. Quote
carolyn Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 Ive heard they are a great all around tool. I guess if I had them I probly wouldnt invest in another set of tools quite yet, especially if this is one of your first years out. Sold a couple pairs this weekend, in fact. Quote
lummox Posted November 16, 2004 Posted November 16, 2004 as far as two hammers go: fuk that shit. i go old skool with an ax in my dominant hand and i have no ethical problem chopping a small step to stand sideways on for placing pro. Quote
rhyang Posted November 16, 2004 Author Posted November 16, 2004 Agree with that for alpine stuff. But I figure on waterfalls I'll be on toprope for a while and am a little worried about popping the adze into my face or something. Quote
snodger Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 i have no ethical problem chopping a small step to stand sideways on for placing pro. Quote
Don_Serl Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 But I... am a little worried about popping the adze into my face or something. you've got to develop the habit of climbing with your face out of the line of fire. always... (it helps "lead" your body into better position under your higher tool that way as well.) cheers, Quote
carolyn Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 rhyang, agree with don serl. If you are concerned you can always put half of a tennis ball on the end of the adze or even a gob of duct tape. Wear glasses as well. They have fancy dancy types for buckoo bucks, or you can just go to a hardware store. Some of the stores have fairly stylish lookin' protective wear. Did I miss where you have an adze on the tool already? You could just get two hammers and an adze on the side. Switch em out when needed. Quote
rhyang Posted November 19, 2004 Author Posted November 19, 2004 Thanks all - I appreciate your insights. re: adze - I also have a bent-shaft BD shrike (ya the one that's on sale everywhere) that I've used on multipitch alpine ice climbs in the sierras, with an adze for the express purpose of chopping stuff like footholds. Worked great on blue ice once I changed out the cobra pick for a laser pick (the cobra / titan / whatever pick seemed great for more aerated alpine ice like on Shasta's north side, but plated miserably on water ice, though I'm sure that also had to do with my newbie technique). Aztars don't have interchangeable adze/hammer heads, nor do shrikes. For the single-pitch and/or beginner-level toproping I expect to do on waterfall ice in the near future I don't suspect I'll need an adze anyway. Yes, I got my aztars really cheap on ebay. I don't expect to be leading anytime soon, but am curious - do people use adze's for clearing junk ice to put in screws, or is the pick usually better for that ('spect it depends on the tool too). later on when/if I get good at this maybe I'll get quarks or whatever. Now all we need is some decent ice down here so I can practice ... for now I'm just salivating at the pics in the gallery. Quote
lummox Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 I don't expect to be leading anytime soon, but am curious - do people use adze's for clearing junk ice to put in screws, or is the pick usually better for that ('spect it depends on the tool too). yes. everything is fair in war. and love. or sumpin like dat Quote
icegirl Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 As far as an adze goes I hear that little smiley scar by your eyebrow helps pick up chicks in Lillooet Quote
Dru Posted November 19, 2004 Posted November 19, 2004 You mean like the chicks in lillooet who tell you that when they get pregnant they stick to drinking beer? Quote
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