rate these suckers

[man_vrs_mountain]

between grivel alp wing, petzl charet quark, black diamond cobra, and the grivel tech wing. what do you think is the most versitile and all around "best"

[ken4ord]

The Cobra are great. They're light, swing good, decent spike, decent hammer. The adze are dangerous, so I just climb with hammers.

The Quarks would be second, only complaints are they're little heavier and the spike is harder to plunge, but they swing real nice and they are solid.

The Grivels are all right, I like they're picks a lot, not really a fan on how the swing and place.

[bDubyaH]

1. quark - these work very well with me

2. cobra - feel kinda strange to me, but work just fine

3. grivel - no experience with

 

i climb on old school pulsars, they work great if you like to bash your knuckles, they seem "more solid" than all the above axes to me. i.e. no qualms about beating the hell out of them, but that's probably because i am geting to be as old school as my axes. if i bought a new pair today it would be quarks.

[man_vrs_mountain]

so basically between the cobra or the quark depending on personal preference? or how much cash you got i think quarks are 30 smackers cheaper

[fenderfour]

Go swing them. I tried all of the above and the Tech Wings were the best for my swing. That doesn't mean that the others aren't great tools, the design of the Grivel was best for me.

[NYC007]

Tech wings ROCK. Very effertless swing, the head to shaft weight is perfect. The Quarks are a lil light in the head which takes more effert to swing in harder ice, the shaft on the cobra are big for people with little hands.

[jmace]

Ok of course its all preference but I swung the cobras for a weekend --> they suck!! First of all they are heavy and they pumped me out so quick and they are fat handled, yes I am a small guy so big guys probably have the juice tio swing em. the picks are thick though and compared to the quarks they were so hard to get out of the ice, every time I wanted to move it was a struggle to get them out. Reminded me of my Grivel Rambo 2 big honking burly pick thats great for mixed but god awlful for pure ice. Hands down the quarks are the best, easy to swing easy to control and go in and out of the ice nice!!! I have the Aztars and they feel a tad too light but I can swingem all day

 

j

[specialed]

If you like to climb mountains I think the BD Rage is a great all arounder, and a good value.

[Rafael_H]

I have both Cobra's and regular Quark's. Quark IS lighter of the two by my own weighing and the specs. It also comes with a handrest that makes leashless a bit easier and can protect the pinky from bashing and getting wet. I like the swing of Quark's a bit more and would even like to sell my Cobra tools (I even took pics, but have no extra money for Ergo's ). BTW, the leash hole on the newest Quark model is lower so the BD Viper Android leash can be accomodated

 

A specualtion - it might be easier to attach some sort of second, higher hand restfor leashless to Quark.

[Alex]

I think you have the Cobra and Viper mixed up ken4ord? The Cobra is def heavy, much heavier than the Quark.

 

Here's my take:

grivel alp wing - nice tool, not as much clearance as some others. can get them pretty cheap http://store.yahoo.com/fulfillmentadventures/gralpwiiceto.html

 

petzl charet quark - lightest tool of the bunch, awesome technical waterfall and mixed tool, i wouldnt want it for the alpine due to the rubber "grips" not plunging well in harder snow

 

black diamond cobra - heavy, awesome tech waterfall and mixed tool. i wouldnt use them in the alpine for long approaches because they are SO damn heavy compared to my old skool X-15s

[Alex]

First of all they are heavy and they pumped me out so quick and they are fat handled

agree they are heavy and take some getting used to

the picks are thick though and compared to the quarks they were so hard to get out of the ice

perhaps you are sinking them too deep? you dont have to get alot of the pick in for a solid placemet. Also, you have to file the picks down from the factory in order to get them to clean better, but this is true of alot of tools

Hands down the quarks are the best, easy to swing easy to control and go in and out of the ice nice!!!

agree they are up there!

I have the Aztars and they feel a tad too light but I can swingem all day

i dont like Aztars as they are a few cm shorter than other tools, and as a result i have to swing them "more" to climb the same distance on a pitch

[man_vrs_mountain]

i plan to get quarks, but could they also suit my purpose for on hard snow if i was mountaineering? and could that be helped if i got a bigger pick?

[Alex]

"hard snow if i was mountaineering"? what kind of "mountaineering" are you doing?

 

Mt Rainier? In a word, No. N Buttress Couloir on Colchuck? Yes.

[man_vrs_mountain]

scratch the previous question ive seen two different pictures of the quark one has the hook thing at the bottom like rafael was talking about and one doesnt if i was to go and buy a pair from rei or someplace which one would i get? am i seeing two different models and if so which one is newer

[layton]

i've had cobras for 4 years now and am begining to envy other tools. they were the fucking shit when they came out, however. i think they rawk for alpine cuz you can plunge em n' shit.

[Alex]

the "Quark Ergo" is the leashless tool, looks like it has a big handle on it...thats the one you dont want.

[Rafael_H]

The 2004 model is the one that comes with the handrest attachments. They are removable. If you get the older model - you'd have to pay for the attachments separately. I got my pair from http://www.ProMountainSports.com.

 

Quark Ergo - anybody wants to exchange a pair for a pair of BD Cobras? Just to be clear though - Cobra is a great tool too.

[man_vrs_mountain]

thx

[man_vrs_mountain]

 

http://www.promountainsports.com./ice-axes.shtml i mean this or this http://mtntools.com/cat/alpineice/axes/charletmoserquarkicetools.htm

[Don_Serl]

4 of us spent the day on the seracs at baker on thursday. the ice had gone quite cold, so was VERY prone to shattering and huge plates. there were a variety of tools in use, and the tiny pick on the quark was clearly superior to the cobra (and anything else). that said, i'm convinced u could "tune" the tip of the cobra pick by rounding out the upper corner to reduce the size of the contact face, and reduce the ice displacement.

 

no way i'm gonna trash-talk the cobras (superb tools), but everything about the quark "works" for me. my ONLY concern is that the pick is soooo small that i wonder a bit about its durability for drytooling. petzl gives good advice on this matter:

 

"Ice axes used for dry-tooling should be reserved exclusively for this activity, and must be carefully inspected before each use: verify the integrity of all elements of the tool, from the pick to the grip.

 

Most importantly, do not use your dry-tooling gear on adventure climbs (long mountain routes, icefalls...). The fatigue caused by dry-tooling could result in a catastrophic tool failure on a poorly protected route, or on a multipitch climb."

 

at very least, reserve a set of picks exclusively for dry tooling. the cobra comes with the Laser pick (which u could tune thin for ice), then u cld buy a pair of Titans for drytooling durability (and/or alpine).

 

cheers,

[swaterfall]

M_v_M are you talking about this

 

 

versus this

 

 

If so then the 2nd image is of the "new" Quark with the pinky rest attached.

[dbb]

I just got a pair of the 2004 Quarks and have to say quite frankly they rock! Great clearance, natural swing, perfect headweight (for me) and grip diameter. The leashless hook will be nice for ice, but I wish I could figure out how to take the thing off for alpine. I mean, the freaking info booklet shows me how to step by step figure-4 across a roof, but doesn't show the magic step of what to do once you remove the bolt. I just climbed with the things on an they plunged alright. The new clipper leash thing works pretty nicely too, though seems more fragile than the androids..

 

I just don't get it when people compromise what tools they buy because they think it will be harder to plunge into snow. If you're buying an ice tool, buy an ice tool. Yeah bent shafts or rubber handles may be a little harder to plunge, but only marginally so. Remember when bent shaft pulsars were considered "too extreme" for alpine?

[man_vrs_mountain]

yes swaterfall thank you for the clarification thats all i wanted to know

[lummox]

#1 = quark

[ken4ord]

I have both Cobra's and regular Quark's. Quark IS lighter of the two by my own weighing and the specs. It also comes with a handrest that makes leashless a bit easier and can protect the pinky from bashing and getting wet. I like the swing of Quark's a bit more and would even like to sell my Cobra tools (I even took pics, but have no extra money for Ergo's ). BTW, the leash hole on the newest Quark model is lower so the BD Viper Android leash can be accomodated

 

A specualtion - it might be easier to attach some sort of second, higher hand restfor leashless to Quark.

 

 

I take back what I said about the Quarks being heavier. I was thinking about when I first tried them out and they are much lighter than they used to be. Made me even think about getting those and getting rid of my Cobras, they have more clearance and lighter than the Cobras.