Bush States

[Blake]

Would anyone out there ever choose to live in a "Bush State" (apart from the northern Rockies?) Seriously, I think the Kerry states, with maybe the Rockies thrown in, should concede. Bush States are definitely the crappy ones.

[scott_harpell]

Fuck that man. I would rather live in Montana, Alaska, Utah or Idaho than Mass-a-fucking-chusetts anyday.

[catbirdseat]

You can't blame people for being gullible. They voted their fears.

[scott_harpell]

No, they didn't want to vote for a guy who believes whatever will get him re-eleceted; whatever will increase his popularity. These are not ideals that the average American respects.

[fredrogers]

see attached

 

careful w/this attachment. in good spray form, some of you might get offended

Edited November 3, 2004 by minx

[JayB]

I remember spending an entire summer working 12 hour shifts in a factory, then coming back to campus and interacting with someone who billed themselves as a "labor activist."

 

The guy was wearing all black, part of which included a turtleneck, had never held a tool in his hand from what I could tell, and certainly had never spent any time working in a production environment, and I could not help but think that the moment that this "labor activist" showed up on the factory floor and began to lecture/attempt to "raise their consciousness" of his erstwhile constituents, they would either ridicule him, or kick the living shit out of him, and more likely do both.

 

This - in a nutshell - summarizes the fundamental problem that the Democrats face as a party. You cannot hold a major portion of the electorate in thinly veiled contempt, address them with condescension, AND expect them to vote for you. Clinton seemed to understand this.

[Distel32]

I could easily live in utah....

 

Little cottonwood, Ibex, Joe's, Triassic, price, maple, american fork.....

 

oh shit my hands are sweating...

[Lionel_Hutz]

No, they didn't want to vote for a guy who believes whatever will get him re-eleceted; whatever will increase his popularity. These are not ideals that the average American respects.

 

While I generally don't agree with your politics, I think you hit the nail on the head here. Why can't the dems field a candidate that isn't afraid to show some sack? <insert clinton joke here>

I think it's time for a bloodletting in the democratic party...

[Ursa_Eagle]

I remember spending an entire summer working 12 hour shifts in a factory, then coming back to campus and interacting with someone who billed themselves as a "labor activist."

 

The guy was wearing all black, part of which included a turtleneck, had never held a tool in his hand from what I could tell, and certainly had never spent any time working in a production environment, and I could not help but think that the moment that this "labor activist" showed up on the factory floor and began to lecture/attempt to "raise their consciousness" of his erstwhile constituents, they would either ridicule him, or kick the living shit out of him, and more likely do both.

 

So someone who lectures to us about needing to go to war yet has never been on the frontlines is any different?

[cj001f]

No, they didn't want to vote for a guy who believes whatever will get him re-eleceted; whatever will increase his popularity. These are not ideals that the average American respects.

 

Arrogance, Elitism, and Stubborness are better?

[scott_harpell]

Standing up for what you know is right, knowing that democracy is better than a dictatorship or terrorist rule and not giving up on what you know is the right thing to do even if it is not a popular decision. Yes you bet your life it is.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

You can't blame people for being gullible. They voted their fears.

 

The above comment exemplifies the arrogance of the left-wing elitists of this country. Rather than accept that the average person has weighed the alternatives, listened to the arguments, and made a rational choice, you characterize a conclusion that you yourself have not made as being done out of emotion or stupidity.

 

You need to overcome your delusions of superiority, and accept that people aren't as stupid as you think.

 

I can assure you that most people I know who support the war do not do so our of "fear", but out of rational consideration of the reality of the threats we face. I do not fear terrorists, I oppose them. They have my attention and determination to eradicate their ilk. I view them in historical context as an analogous phenomenon to fascism of the 20th century. Just as Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo needed to be eliminated, so do the Islamo-Fascists. If you refuse to counter this point of view with anything other than "your are stupid" or "you fear terrorists", then you will not persuade anyone with a modicum of intelligence - and that includes the American electorate in its totality.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Arrogance, Elitism, and Stubborness are better?

 

You have to be kidding? The irony here is so glaring. The attributes that you assign to Bush, can be so easily ascribed to Kerry. Everything about the man screams arrogance and elitism - his demeanor, attitude, manner of speaking, and lifestyle. And as for stubborness, he has never backed down from his decisions or statements, or admitted to glaring mistakes in his career.

[cj001f]

The attributes that you assign to Bush, can be so easily ascribed to Kerry. Everything about the man screams arrogance and elitism - his demeanor, attitude, manner of speaking, and lifestyle.

 

Bush has the arrogance to try and pass himself off as a hick. Kerry at least lives as what he is - a New England Brahmin. Don't forget that's what both he a W are - they were both members of Skull & Bones for crissake.

 

If you prefer the policies of W, fine. Don't give me this moral crap. That's just the spinmeister image people talking.

[scott_harpell]

The attributes that you assign to Bush, can be so easily ascribed to Kerry. Everything about the man screams arrogance and elitism - his demeanor, attitude, manner of speaking, and lifestyle.

 

Obviously you have not read the article where Kerry talks about his 16 point buck when he was crawling on his belly hunting with decoys outsmarting the deer and shooting them with his dbl barreled shotgun. Or when we said "I's here to get me a licence."

 

Bush has the arrogance to try and pass himself off as a hick. Kerry at least lives as what he is - a New England Brahmin. Don't forget that's what both he a W are - they were both members of Skull & Bones for crissake.

 

If you prefer the policies of W, fine. Don't give me this moral crap. That's just the spinmeister image people talking.

[foraker]

i don't think the electorate is stupid. rather, the democrats lost the war by selecting an inferior candidate and not properly prosecuting the war of ideas. they really could have taken bush to task and produced a clearly superior plan, but they never did so (or, at least, they never articulated it clearly). they let themselves get caught up in a nasty mud slinging bout. i don't particularly like bush, but here's hoping he does a better job second time around (optimist as always)

[scott_harpell]

all they did was say that they were the anti-bush. That is all find and dandy but what are you going to actually do? What is your plan for sucess.

[foraker]

exactly. i kept hoping they'd do that but they never did. i was even hoping it might prompt bush to say 'we've made some mistakes but hey, here's an even *better* plan!' rather than, '4 more years of the same'.

[scott_harpell]

to be completely honest. I didn't even vote for Bush.

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

to be completely honest. I didn't even vote for Bush.

 

Figures. Nader man, no doubt?

[Off_White]

I dunno, from a purely geophysical standpoint, Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico all have their distinct appeal. I've long thought that Utah would be great, except for the people that live there. I'd take most of those over the Northeast, though both Maine, Vermont, and New Hampshire have their virtues, as does anywhere close to the Gunks. The semi-south, like North Carolina and Kentucky are also not without their geologic appeal. I suppose it depends on what you accept as "climbing," but unless you're utterly devoted to glaciers, a large chunk of the contintent has something worthwhile to offer. Okay, maybe not Saskatchewan or Manitoba...

[scott_harpell]

to be completely honest. I didn't even vote for Bush.

 

Figures. Nader man, no doubt?

 

Yep

[JayB]

I remember spending an entire summer working 12 hour shifts in a factory, then coming back to campus and interacting with someone who billed themselves as a "labor activist."

 

The guy was wearing all black, part of which included a turtleneck, had never held a tool in his hand from what I could tell, and certainly had never spent any time working in a production environment, and I could not help but think that the moment that this "labor activist" showed up on the factory floor and began to lecture/attempt to "raise their consciousness" of his erstwhile constituents, they would either ridicule him, or kick the living shit out of him, and more likely do both.

 

So someone who lectures to us about needing to go to war yet has never been on the frontlines is any different?

 

My anecdote was basically an illustration of the point that the Democrats need to learn to appeal to the people that they are ostensibly out to protect and legislate on behalf of if they are ever going to win another presidential election.

 

An effete missionary from the ivory tower that spends half his time railing against the US [e.g. the "labor activist" in the above example] is not the guy to send onto the factory floor to persuade the workers to support one's agenda - even if it will ostensibly benefit the workers when enacted. This is analogous to what the Dems did with Kerry and the electorate in the South and the interior. Again - Clinton seemed to recognize this reality, and his electoral successes reflected the utility of this approach.

 

As far as the millitary is concerned, I think the troops have spoken on this one. Kerry did serve - but his conduct after the war and his running commentary on the effort that they are risking their lives to prosecute, not to mention the remainder of his platform - did not resonate very well with them - and they voted accordingly.

[cj001f]

As far as the millitary is concerned, I think the troops have spoken on this one. Kerry did serve - but his conduct after the war and his running commentary on the effort that they are risking their lives to prosecute, not to mention the remainder of his platform - did not resonate very well with them - and they voted accordingly.

When was the last time the military voted for a Dem? Gore served as well - the military loathed him. The military draws a majority of it's soldiers from areas that vote Red. Always has.

[klenke]

Blake, it should be noted that Kerry won WA (one of your "Kerry States") by about a 56 to 44% margin. Hardly a decisive margin in the vein of 70-30. Contrary to your comments, there are quite a lot of republicans living in this state. Think outside of the Puget Sound metro area heavily populated by democrats.

 

Including this election, the state has voted for the democratic candidate for the last five or six elections. This doesn't mean the state (even the Seattle metro area) wouldn't again vote for a republican candidate sometime. Albeit, he/she'd have to be a pretty strong candidate to overcome the partisan nature of things around here.

 

I read in the paper today that Locke (I think it was Locke) won the governor's race and only won 3 out of 39 WA counties. He won the heavily populated metro counties. There is a definite dichotomy between the way the smug city folks think and the way the rest of the state thinks. Go live in E. Washington for a while and you will see opposite points of view are the norm.