scott_harpell Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 sell all your metolius gear as the two guys who did are sponsored by metolius. And sell all your BD stuff too as one of the two guys is also sponsored by BD. And while you are at it sell your petzl gear Cover of last year's metolius catalog. NOLSEY....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 so much for "rap bolting" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Ok I'll admit it. The only route I've done on PP is the West Ridge. Which by the way is only so-so. I just wanted to see what anyone would say if someone claimed it. I guess the answer is not much. I don't understand how you guys can get so worked over something you know so little about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I was more than suspicious about that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Well you ran right over to the Ascentionist and posted about my claim. By the way if I was going to "hike" into a climb I would stop at Dragontail and do one of those ultra groovy cracks near Asgard Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Yeah. That is why I didn't say "Peter Puffer did it!!!" I said someone claimed they did it. Was that false? I covered my ass did I not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Kid Scotty said: J.P. it is only reasonable that something so controversial as this have its contents aired to the community. This has far reaching implications far beyond one climb or a "couple bolts." This sets a dangerous precedence that many in the community wish never becomes established. Your reluctance to divulge information vital to the communties understanding of this route because of personal reasons or to defend this route from the consensus of the community is irresponsible and childish. There are many involved in this scenario which are far more upset about this than I and unless the facts are aired, this route will be history and the bolts that adorned it will be adorning the living room of the aforementioned individuals. I hope you understand that you being open and honest about this route will not have any effect on its fate either way. The truth will come out one way or another. The thing you are risking right now J.P. is a further polarization of two sides that are already at odds. If you truly have the best interests of the community and the sport at heart you will make the info you have public so that this controversy may run its course before tempers and fellins of ill-will become any more apart of this than they already are. -Scott Choco hammered Kid Scotty: Reasonable? First of all, the assumption that somehow the posters on this thread (or this board!) are the "climbing community" is a bit laughable and self-aggrandizing at best. Most of who I climb with never visit this site, nor do most of the others that I run into!?!? Secondly Scott, I find it a bit funny how you're acting like a kid who can't quite reach the freezer for a popsicle and throws a tantrum (give him a few more clues for fun's sake Nolse!). And thirdly, relax people. I'm sure all the info will be available in due time (your world won't end in the mean-time). I'm sure at that time, a reasoned conclusion and consensus will be reached. The idea that this is "the" PacNW climbing community is laughable. So a few of the notable local figures hang out here on the fringes...occasionally....big deal. Most of them are embarrased or afraid to post under their real names and realize that getting sucked into this site takes them away from their real objective...climbing. This 'community' is overrun by reactionary, knee-jerk, arm chair quarterbacks who fill these threads with pointless drivel. Sure, it's fun to read sometimes, but calling it 'the' climbing community is really a stretch. spray on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted November 3, 2004 Author Share Posted November 3, 2004 (edited) Dispite Ray Burbon's (aka caveman) original claim, I doubt there are several new lines on Prusik that were bolted last summer. At least in one case the climber's aren't sponsored. " None of our the team (Marco Constant, Doug Ingersoll) are sponsored!" At least one does indeed work for Metolius, Brooke Sandahl. Their new 800' line has a total of 7 bolts for protection and another 6 on anchors. From Brooke, "This route is a bold traditional undertaking and with climbing up to 5.12b fairly technical and serious (some pitchs would probably be R rated). You will need a double set of cams to #9, triples on small units, a large selection of brass nuts, and stoppers. In these final three (short) pitches (crossing over to the south face and then back again to the west face), we placed 1 protection bolt and two stations (added on edit: these 5 bolts were done on rappel as Burbon originally impied) Our route takes the extreme south crack of the west face of the headwall (missing the whole main headwall) and ends in a wild foot & back chimney - belaying under the large visor which juts out over the west face. We did not see any evidence of rap bolting up the main headwall." Sounds like a nice climb to me and a good effort even with the 5 bolts added under less than stellar conditions. Again from Brooke and I would agree now knowing more of the details behind their ascent. "It is definitely in keeping with the history and traditions of the area, while possibly raising the bar a little bit. I highly suggest you have a go at this route if your interested in high quality granite crack / face climbing." It would seem that the "rap bolted headwall", wasn't by most accounts. This isn't a big help though. Peter sez: Ok I have been persuaded to admit to the rap bolting on PP. The bolt locations in some of these threads do not seem to be the route we climbed but anyway.... I wussed and checked it out on rappel. But after seeing the edges, which would have provided perfect A1 hooks, I figured why not make it a headpoint. (I may be misusing the term “headpoint” because we did not TR the pitch.) So out came the flintstone rig and in went the bolts. The route moves up across a face and up a rounded arete passing 2 bolts and a rivet that is almost invisible. This was placed on lead (hence the rivit) because as it turns out I didn’t have the head for the point - 11d 20+’ feet out. The entire pitch is 12b/c. I have no idea about the bolted rap route. Edited November 4, 2004 by Dane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 I would suggest that you or whomever created this climb step up and make an attempt to vouch for this climb. If not, it will be gone that is a fact. You can say that no-one ill find the bolts, but there are enough interested parties that this will get done unless you step up and start answering some questions. -Scott The truth shall set you free... problem solved by answering the questions... all the time with out knowing where the route is. Big ups to Dane for not getting caught up in the hyperbole and getting to the bottom of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knelson Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back there NOLSe. Just because Brooke says there is no apparent rap bolted line up the headwall doesn't mean it wasn't there. (How many times have you missed seeing that "apparent" line, or the "obvious" bolt?) Seems rather hypocritical to cast off one person's account of said rap-bolting (Cavey), but totally gobble up another person's info as Gospel. I wouldn't say ANYONE has gotten "to the bottom of it." It's just another piece of the picture that has fallen into place. No.. I'm not in the anti-bolt/chopping camp. I just don't like seeing people get too smug with themselves. -kurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frieh Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Seems rather hypocritical to cast off one person's account of said rap-bolting (Cavey), but totally gobble up another person's info as Gospel. Unless you first qualify the information's source: Brooke's efforts in the NW speak for them self. Cavey's violent threats against anyone who questions him and substance less accusations do also. Yes further lines supposable exist... but judging the result of this inquiry I have a hard time granting credibility to the same style "I saw so and so" claims... bring forth some viable evidence and then we can begin again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knelson Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 ... bring forth some viable evidence and then we can begin again. Wasn't looking to start the discussion again - just pointing out that one bit of evidence doesn't end it. But thanks for letting me know the rules of the discussion! Yes, Ray's personna doesn't really portray a "trusted source." Personally, I'd also give more credence to Brooke's info than Cavey's (even tho I don't know either one of them!) BUT, when someone makes a statement such as "I personally saw someone doing such-and-such." and the reply is "BS - prove it" one can usually expect a rather gruff reply. Again... as noted on this thread earlier, the attitude that CC.com is THE climbing community in the PNW is pretty elitist, and just plain wrong. Your implication that Brooke's information puts this thread to bed kinda smacks of that attitude, which I was tryin' to point out nicely to you... before others that like to jump all over your ass do! Anyway, if I come across any viable evidence of the route, I'll be sure and send it your way! -kurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Turns out that Brooke and buds did bolt two stations and one protection bolt on the last headwall from rappel. Not really what Ray implied happened by his original comments. (or at least how I read them) My take having climbed the S face a couple of times and looked at some of the line Brooke did is it was a good effort done in a style I understand and might have employed myself in similar circiumstances. I'll give credit where I think it is due. Looks to me like Brooke and buds did a good job on a hard route many have looked at and talked about but not had the energy or stones to pull off. I am not going to bust anyone's balls for a new 800' route that has one preplaced rap bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I would suggest that you or whomever created this climb step up and make an attempt to vouch for this climb. If not, it will be gone that is a fact. You can say that no-one ill find the bolts, but there are enough interested parties that this will get done unless you step up and start answering some questions. -Scott The truth shall set you free... problem solved by answering the questions... all the time with out knowing where the route is. Big ups to Dane for not getting caught up in the hyperbole and getting to the bottom of it. It didn't help that you were spewing bogus info. Why did you do that? or were you just takling out of your ass? I still don't agree with the ethic used to put up the climb, but I am happy they were so thrifty with their bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCKY Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 This 'community' is overrun by reactionary, knee-jerk, arm chair quarterbacks who fill these threads with pointless drivel. Sure, it's fun to read sometimes, but calling it 'the' climbing community is really a stretch. Now thats a quote I will remember Blackbelt internet keyboard climbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backcountrydog Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 dane in your post that stated this thread, did you send bd, metolius, and petzel that email? if so, did you email them back giving them you opinion in your last post? just curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 Pays to remember this is a business to most involved. You want to change things tell them it is bad business. How about this as a start? To: climb@bdel.com, info@metoliusclimbing.com , info@petzl.com Re:Rap Bolting on Prusik Peak "My understanding is your sponsored climbers rap bolted (via hand drill) the headwall there this summer. Avoiding the obvious and unclimbed thin seam. I have supported all of you over the years. How about you inturn support the future of our sport with a public statement condemning such actions as irresponsible and illadvised? "Silence over time is acceptance". Good call Backcountrydawg, In reading your post Dane, it looked to me like you tried and convicted them without evidence, like Alpine K pointed out earlier. You ignored Josephs post that he knew them. Now you have the truth. Do we hear the sound of Emily Lattila in a quiet voice saying..........."never mind"? Since they got tried, convicted and hung from the trees without evidence, it's probably time to unstring them now. Dane, I suspect that is why your post for a new approch to bolt issues was not responded to by many people. In fact you have not revisited it yourself. http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/404626/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1 Sounds like a good route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I'm with Dane on Dishman, but here I have to defer to Brooke who worked this route with his friends over a couple of summers. There wouldn't be a bolt on it if they felt there was any reasonable alternative (and their concept of reasonable would probably still be be pretty damn scary to most folks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 I'm with Dane on Dishman, but here I have to defer to Brooke who worked this route with his friends over a couple of summers. There wouldn't be a bolt on it if they felt there was any reasonable alternative (and their concept of reasonable would probably still be be pretty damn scary to most folks). Ditto: ditto: total agreement and hello J! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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