double standads

[glassgowkiss]

for all of you anti- bolting nazis you are using totally double standards ethics. so how about ban on use crampons/ ice axes/ ice tools and ski poles in wildrness areas. the impact of these things is obvious to me. holes from ski poles on trails are obvious, as well as crampon marks on scree and moranes. as the matter of fact they are mechanical devices designed to help you move in the back county. no fucking cell phones or gps either. same with artificial lights. after all- they can disturb nocturnal animals. while we are at it everyone who enters wildrness should be wearing calostromy bag and catheter

and most of all no spring loaded camming devices. after all it is a mechanical tool. so how about that nitpicking motherfuckers?

as the matter of fact i should start a campain of letter to FS, BLM and NPS to ban these things too. maybe that would level the fiels a bit?

Edited September 30, 2004 by glassgowkiss

[sobo]

Any bets on how long it will take before this thread gets moved to Spray?

[russ]

As someone who uses ski poles part of the time, I concur. Buy those rubber tips they sell at REI so your poles don't leave all the little holes.

[telemarker]

so how about ban on use crampons/ ice axes/ ice tools and ski poles in wildrness areas. the impact of these things is obvious to me. holes from ski poles on trails are obvious

 

Good aeriation....

[Ireneo_Funes]

I've wondered if the proliferation of folks using trekking poles has had any significant effect on trail erosion. Any evidence of this?

[Geek_the_Greek]

I agree that the definition of 'mechanized' transport is contrived beyond belief. I think paragliders are banned in wilderness areas because they are considered mechanized transport. What a crock of shit.

[glassgowkiss]

so how about ban on use crampons/ ice axes/ ice tools and ski poles in wildrness areas. the impact of these things is obvious to me. holes from ski poles on trails are obvious

 

Good aeriation....

no, more like total destruction of whatever managed to live in this fragile/hostile setting. after watching a 12 person "train fron hell" (team of mounties) on sitkum glacier i don't need no further evidence. if you go to any more popular area, like boston basin, you can see how ground gets torn up with crampons. on raineer there is a foot deep trench on poular routes, so how is that for non-impact? as well as piss stains, turd marks?

fame away

[snoboy]

I've wondered if the proliferation of folks using trekking poles has had any significant effect on trail erosion. Any evidence of this?

 

I have heard, and observed, that trails are a lot wider than they used to be...

[blue_morph]

Are you totally bored today or something?

[Dru]

I think Bill Simpkins has some pictures of a trekking Pole on Tomyhoi

[ashw_justin]

STFU (unless you can show me a fixed crampon)

[Dechristo]

I saw a guy goin' up the trail on an amputated leg. Sumbitch had a ski pole for a pra... proths... OH FOCK, for his artificial leg!!!

 

The evil son of a bitch was churnin' up ground like a Troy-Built.

[Figger_Eight]

A foot deep trench in snow is permanent...UNTIL IT SNOWS.

 

Yup...I'll go with totally bored.

[Bill_Simpkins]

I think Bill Simpkins has some pictures of a trekking Pole on Tomyhoi

 

I think everyone is missing Bob's point. It's not the use of trekking poles he is talking about. i think he's trying to say that if we raise a stink about others peoples stuff, they can easily build a case against climbers and hikers, thus threaten access to these areas. If we cause no damage at all then we have a case, but right now we are just hypocrytes.

[Stefan]

It is true. I am anti-bolting. Not an anti-bolting nazi. Bolting in certain areas are acceptable to me.

 

But I also use trails and so that is hypocritic to my anti-bolting opinion.

 

glassgokiss. Are you a teenager? I just want to know becuase you use vulgarity so often in your writing.

[cj001f]

I think everyone is missing Bob's point. It's not the use of trekking poles he is talking about. i think he's trying to say that if we raise a stink about others peoples stuff, they can easily build a case against climbers and hikers, thus threaten access to these areas. If we cause no damage at all then we have a case, but right now we are just hypocrytes.

Bolts are a permanent installation. Trails grow back (especially on the west side) - that's a fundamental difference, not hypocrisy.

[Dru]

I have seen much more significant erosion on ice climber trails where certain idiots seem to think its cool to wear their crampons to walk up and down the Rambles trail.

 

But what the hell. Even animals cause erosion. Ever seen a well used cattle trail or a goat path in the alpine?

[Bill_Simpkins]

Trails can disrupt an ecosystem, which can have a permanent effect.

There are many arguments in both directions. As far as cams go, they do little or no damage, snomobiles cause lot's of noise which can scare wildlife out of an area, big difference. But if we get on their case, the snomobilers might say that cams can dislodge flakes causing permanent damage also, which is rare, but true.

I have personal opinions on the subject, but I feel Bob has a good point and we should gripe less about other people activities. We have to be careful about who we gripe to, and what we gripe about, else we won't be climbing anymore.

[Bill_Simpkins]

Just think how many more birds would nest at Smiff or Sqaumish if no one was on the cliffs. How much more wildlife their would be roaming around the woods at the smokebluffs if we wern't there. Who knows? It can be debated. What if a group forms saying they no longer want to see clean streaks going up the cliffs were the routes are. That it is an eye-sore and takes away from the wildlife experience. What if people saying that yelling climbers take them away from nature in their favorite spot. Who's to say we have more of a right to be there? There is a lot of bad stuff that we climbers do that we think is ok just because we are the ones benefiting. The point is, however, is all this stuff can be used against us, and we should be careful.

[Geek_the_Greek]

Yup. From an environmental point, climbing is far from an impact-free activity, and the largest impacts from climbing have little to do with bolts.

 

BTW snowmobiles have been found to have significant effects on overwintering small mammal populations. It seems they frequently cause collapsing of the snow tunnels that some of them use to get to seed caches and the like.

[Bill_Simpkins]

Our access is getting threatened more and more every year. The more we complain about others peoples access, the more ours will be threatened.

[cj001f]

Our access is getting threatened more and more every year. The more we complain about others peoples access, the more ours will be threatened.

BS. All of your complaints (trails, flakes, etc) fall under accelerated wear - and the only people who'd know about it are people who've accessed the area via a trail. Much of the public realizes a difference bewteen motorized & unmotorized recreation. Much of the public realizes the difference betwen damage inflicted by a commercial even of 400 people and 400 private parties dispersed over the course of months.

[Dru]

Is a Double Stan Dad something to do with gay marriage?

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

The real question we should all be pondering is: Is Beta a wave, or a particle?

[Dru]

Beta is aid