Opinions on The Mountaineers?

[willstrickland]

Dude, is that former Sec of Education and Drug Czar Bill "The Gamblin' Man" Bennett?!

[chris]

Another option is the smaller Washington Alpine Club.

http://www.wacweb.org/default.view

[MervGriffin]

You want an opinion on The Mountaineers? Here's my short version in answer to a post above.

 

...the Mounties/Mazamas/Boealps are just like every other group of climbers.

 

Not so. Certain kinds of folks are attracted to hyper-organized, regimented groups.

 

There are incredibly talented climbers who climb in good form..., and wankers who are a nuisance and danger to everyone.

 

I've met few of the former, although I've heard rumors that more exist, and I have certainly encountered the latter. Fortunately, the average Mountaineer is so encumbered by rules, they are individually more benign rather than exceptional or dangerous.

 

But since they're willing to train new climbers there are a larger number of newbies in their ranks making the same mistake everyone made as a newbie..

 

And who teaches some of these new students? Some of them are "experts" from the previous year's Basic Class; the inexperienced led by the barely experienced.

And if "newbies" make the same mistakes over and over again, why isn't avoiding such part of the program? I've also seen a few disturbing examples of the Mountie's so-called "mentor" program. It was like the blind leading the blind.

 

It's just that their actions cause people to scorn the groups as a whole, when it all reality it should reflect less on the organization then on the individual..

 

Most of the common complaints about the Mountaineers have to do with their organizational style: mass production of regimented climbers and the associated behaviors and outcomes. Some of the more obnoxious individuals are likely attracted to, or a product of, a system full of clipboards and rules.

 

In all reality considering the number of climbs that the club puts on every year, I'm a little shocked there aren't more horror stories. The various branches run over 100 climbs per month during the climbing season with no more than 1 party on any given route..

 

And that's a big part of the problem. Sometimes there is one BIG party on a given route and sometimes there are multiple groups from various Mountaineers or Mazama chapters. Many times, for example, I have traveled up the Icicle to find nearly every easy crag festooned with the top-ropes of the Mountaineers or similar groups. I take out beginners from time to time and I find myself having to compete with the mass takeover. (And years ago, the Mountaineers even arrived in chartered buses which let them all out at the Snow Creek parking lot...which is both funny and sad....but then again, maybe the bus was more efficient and less polluting than the dozens of vehicles parked on the roadside.) You want to meet some Mountaineers? Take a friend up the Tooth some sunny day and watch the chaos. And don't forget to wear your helmet; you might need it.

 

It's kind of amusing that it always seems to be the same 5 or 10 pictures dug up though for spray. Most of the partys climb in good form..

 

See comments about the Tooth and Icicle Canyon above.

And those ARE funny pictures.

 

 

And no i'm not saying that MOFA is the equiv. to much more advanced training, but just because they require some for of medical training for everyone and in general use MOFA as the standard doesn't mean it's not worthwhile.

 

Requiring MOFA is at least one good thing the Mountaineers do. Also, their textbook, "Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills", is outstanding, as are many of the other publications their press produces.

 

If joining a group is your thing, and being taught and led by people of varying experience is O.K. with you, the Mountaineers can give you that. Their many rules will probably keep you safe as a beginner but if you harbor ambitions, you might find them a bit stifling.

 

If you want to get a jump start, I'd recommend investing in a course taught by a professional and highly experienced instructors available through several good climbing schools in the Northwest. Even RMI can get you going good with their multi-day seminars.

 

For example:

 

Look for some good schools and instuctors here:

 

American Mountain Guides Association (Find a Guide)

 

And here's a couple of long-established schools:

 

American Alpine Institute

Rainier Mountaineering

 

But then again, there is always The Mountaineers, who many people must enjoy because they seem to have A LOT of members.

Good luck!

[Dr_Crash]

In my case, I've worked as a ski patroller, am certified as an EMT, WEC, etc., so the first aid stuff would be a bunch of review-- time I could better put to use on other aspects of climbing.

 

They'll let you get equivalency if your EMT certification us current. You may need to go to a trip to show what you can do in a mountaineering environment. Check out their pages and look for equivalency (http://www.mountaineers.org/mofa for the first aid one).

 

drC

[Bronco]

Hey, just moved from Colorado-- most of my climbing has consisted of class 3 & 4 solo trips and some steep snow couloir stuff (also solo), with most of my roped climbing consisting of setting top-ropes for my daughter-- and The Mountaineers seemed like a good group to introduce me to Washington. BUT... there seems to be a pretty strong lack of respect for them on many of the posts on this site.

 

What's up? Any input about this group? Any better ideas? Thanks for any information...

 

Post a request on the partner forum here, you sound like a potentially solid partner to me. I imagine you would quickly tire of the Mountaineers. I mostly learned to climb from looking at Black Diamond catalogs and I haven't hurt anyone but myself yet.

[Ursa_Eagle]

I had scrambling and top rope (both rock and ice) experience from the Adirondacks when I moved out here, and I took the Mazama's Basic Class. While it was mostly review, I had a great time. That summer, I climbed every weekend (including things such as the Whitney Glacier on Shasta and the East Face of Jefferson.) So I took the intermediate class. Again, after the experience that I gained my first summer, the class was mostly review, yet still very much so worth it. The summer after that class, I again climbed every weekend, amongst them was the West Ridge of Forbidden Peak and the NE Face of Mt. Redoubt. Forbidden was with friends from the intermediate class and Redoubt was an official club climb. I never would have dreamed of doing either of these peaks if it wasn't for the Mazamas. Quite simply, where else are you going to find a lot of leaders with 20-30 years of experience (or more) that are happy to take you along with them on anything from an easy to a difficult climb?

Many of the people on this site do have a lot of experience, some might even take you on a trip, but are they willing to show you the ropes and teach you all the way from where you are now to where you want to be? I've found many leaders who are willing to do that in the Mazamas.

[PaulB]

... there seems to be a pretty strong lack of respect for them on many of the posts on this site.

It's actually jealousy due to the fact that male Mountaineers are so good with the ladies. This sordid tale gives a rare look into their methods of seduction.

 

 

Sorry, but I couldn't resist digging up this gem. Perhaps one of the funniest things I've ever read online.

[rbw1966]

I took the Mazama's Basic Class. . .

 

Where else can you take a class on hiking? The Mazamas is your one-stop shop for all your mountaineering needs. You'll never get lonely when in one of their groups either since they usually consist of 8-12 people.

 

Bravo!

[iain]

Sounds like good hogsback training. I'm thinking of bringing a riot shield up there in the future.

[Ireneo_Funes]

I took the Mazama's Basic Class. . .

 

Where else can you take a class on hiking?

 

Yeah, it's a class on hiking... where you learn to tie knots, belay properly, rappel, how to self-arrest with your axe, etc, etc. All the basic mountaineering skills that a lot of so-called self-taught mountaineers have no clue about. Present company excluded of course.

 

I took the Mazamas Basic Class (and the Intermediate Class) after moving here from the midwest flatlands, having no practical knowledge of mountaineering, and I feel like I got a great foundation in how to climb safely. There's a lot of aspects of the club I don't agree with, like the enormous group sizes, and I'm not saying that everyone who goes through their programs is well-trained, but in general they do a good job of teaching people to be responsible climbers.

[rbw1966]

I was making a jab at Ursa who TEACHES a hiking class for the Mazamas.

[Ireneo_Funes]

OK, well I thought you were talking about the Basic School, which I do think has some merit. My mistake, but I stand by my point that the Mazamas do some good in teaching people something about climbing safely - and we all benefit from that, I think.

 

Do they even have a hiking class? I can't imagine what they'd talk about after the 10 essentials lecture.

[iain]

There are still a few openings in the cast iron summit register hauling seminar...

[rbw1966]

I passed Ursa on the sublimely flat oaks bottom trail once as he led a group of about ten women (you go boy!) on what he told me later was a hiking class.

 

Climbing in large numbers seems anathema to safe climbing.

[Dru]

Climbing in large numbers seems anathema to safe climbing.

 

Except in bouldering! SEND BRAH SEND!! DUDE WE GOTCHA!!!

[tomtom]

 

Or a cc.com event.

[selkirk]

[Dru]

don't you mean drinking in large numbers?

[cj001f]

on what he told me later was a hiking class.

That must have been the graduate class, most of the classes I see are around town.

[Ireneo_Funes]

Climbing in large numbers seems anathema to safe climbing.

 

I couldn't agree more. Not only does it create hassles and objective hazards for other people who might be on the route, it also fosters a complacent attitude among people in the group...like what I imagine an RMI climb party is like. It's one of my big complaints with the Mazamas. On the other hand, I'd rather run into 12 Mazamas on the Hogsback than a dozen yokels who don't know how to use their ice axe.

[catbirdseat]

Climbing in large numbers seems anathema to safe climbing.

 

Except in bouldering! SEND BRAH SEND!! DUDE WE GOTCHA!!!

Reminds me of one of our Exit 32 Pub Clubs. "Dude, it's JUST 5.9". Me: "I've lead a sum total of one 5.9 before, and besides I don't have gear for such a thin crack". Them: "That's okay, Mattp will lend you his small Aliens." Me: (thinking) "what could possibly go wrong?" (After I take a fall on an Alien) Kurt: "I was expecting you to crater". Them: "Great catch, Dryad!"

[rbw1966]

on what he told me later was a hiking class.

That must have been the graduate class, most of the classes I see are around town.

 

I saw them on the trail through oaks bottom. The PAVED and flat trail.

[Ireneo_Funes]

Dude, if you're going to knock the class 1 hiking class, there's no way that they're going to let you into the summit register hauling module.

[selkirk]

has anyone ever seen the lead summit register on top of Glacier Peak put there by the Mazama's. Is that standard? that had to hump that thing up.

Edited August 20, 2004 by selkirk

[iain]

has anyone ever seen the lead summit register on top of Glacier

 

No, no one has ever been up Glacier.

 

and I.Funes, it's a seminar, not a module.