F/ 911

[Dave_Schuldt]

Saw it last night, very sad, the mother reading her sons' last letter almost made me cry. If you haven't seen it yet, go. The quote from George Orwells' 1984 at the end was perfict.

[ashw_justin]

Not sure I want to see it... I don't want my "radical" left-wing views to be upstaged!

[Dan_Harris]

First, I have not seen the movie nor do I have plans to give my money to Mr. Moore. I am also not praising nor condeming George Bush.With all of the talk about F/911 and is it a documentary or not I got to thinking about Steve Martin's movie Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid. He took a bunch of clips of old mystery films and spliced them with footage of his own and made a seamless story as if he was acting with Humphrey Bogart, Fred McMurray, et al. If you shot film, edited it correctly you could make anyone you wanted seem evil. As a side note, when I teach my class about statistics, I warn them that one needs to be wary. You can get the results you want in a survey by how, when, and where you ask the question. Supposed documentaries are no different. The movies are a powerful medium and I think one needs to be a bit cynical whenever a film claims to be a documentary.

[ken4ord]

See Control Room, very well done documentary about Al Jazeera. I agree with Micheal Moore views, sometime feel like his movies are for the converted, and sort of turns off people who are riding the fence and might actually think about what is going on. With that said I still can't wait to see it.

 

Control Room however is straight forward documentary, that isn't trying to make a mockery, but trying express what Al Jazeera was really up to, behind all the criticism that they recieve at the beginning of the war. A very interesting watch.

[slothrop]

Despite Moore's use of the usual propaganda-documentary trickiness, a lot of the footage in F9/11 stands for itself and is no different in respect to being "edited" than anything you've ever watched on the TV news.

 

Those who are convinced of Pres. Bush's tough decisiveness should watch just the scenes of when he is told of the 9/11 attacks. Very disappointing.

[cj001f]

Rent "The Fog Of War" instead.

[Dan_Harris]

Those who are convinced of Pres. Bush's tough decisiveness should watch just the scenes of when he is told of the 9/11 attacks. Very disappointing.

Just curious, what should he have done? How should he have reacted? Jumped up and run out of the classroom? Start barking orders? If he did either of these he would have been vilified for unnecessarily scaring the kids and the school staff. He was in a no win situation as far as his opposition goes at that moment.

[Squid]

Duh. What did YOU do when you first heard the towers were under attack?

You probably tried to get some more information, tried to figure out what the fuck was going on. If you were like me, you turned on the TV, the radio, and your computer.

 

Bush just sat there, wondering if he'd picked up the wrong day's script. Not decisive leadership, not the response of an active mind.

 

I'm with Slothrop on this one- check out the footage.

[marylou]

Where on earth did people get the idea that documentaries were supposed to be unbiased?

 

Ever see the most famous documentary of all time, The Triumph of the Will? It's Nazi propaganda. Still a documentary though.

[slothrop]

Just curious, what should he have done? How should he have reacted? Jumped up and run out of the classroom? Start barking orders? If he did either of these he would have been vilified for unnecessarily scaring the kids and the school staff. He was in a no win situation as far as his opposition goes at that moment.

 

Oh please, how disingenuous! I see you read the Christopher Hitchens article. Sure, someone would have criticized Bush, whatever his reaction. Barking orders or running out would have obviously been inappropriate. But Bush is supposed to be the Commander-in-Chief, the guy who makes tough decisions, the guy who's LEADING THE COUNTRY. Instead of doing ANYTHING, he sat there doing NOTHING.

 

I know what he should have done: excuse himself politely from the classroom to talk with his advisers. Not difficult, not insulting to anyone. It's the kind of reaction that real leaders make in a crisis.

 

If you don't want to give your money to Michael Moore, come on up to Seattle and I'll pay for your ticket.

[MtnHigh]

Although the movie is based on the actions of the current administration and is heavily sided against republicans in general, Moore’s messages cut across political affiliations.

 

Power and money define our society

The gov’t does not represent the common citizen

High level gov’t decisions are not based on what the media feeds you

The underclass suffer the most when power/money decide to wage war

[JayB]

Those imploring others to see the film on the grounds of exposing themselves to the material, Moore's perspective, et al should honor their own advice and consult any of the myriad critiques of the manner in which Moore handled the facts. Dismiss all of the critiques from all of the rightist/conservative media and pundits and there's still literally dozens of sober, hard-hitting critiques out there that cannot be dismissed and that must be addressed by anyone who aspires to a truly informed perspective on these matters.

[sailBOI]

If you don't want to give your money to Michael Moore, come on up to Seattle and I'll pay for your ticket.

 

OK, lets see, where is Seattle ?? Ah Ha, there it is on the north part of the LEFT COAST

[ChrisT]

Dan - F9/11 is a great movie for students. It gives them a good idea about how we've all been hoodwinked into war by the current administration. We took four teenagers and they thoroughly enjoyed it esp. the vapid remarks of one B. Spears. F9/11 is propaganda in the same way "Passion of Christ" is propaganda IMHO...and Gibson stands to make 10 times the profit.

[Off_White]

OK, lets see, where is Seattle ?? Ah Ha, there it is on the north part of the LEFT COAST

 

Same map suggests that Brinnon is even farther left, eh Snarkboi.

[To_The_Top]

[wally]

I thought real leaders call Jane Fonda for advise

[sailBOI]

OK, lets see, where is Seattle ?? Ah Ha, there it is on the north part of the LEFT COAST

 

Same map suggests that Brinnon is even farther left, eh Snarkboi.

 

Actually, I was referring to this map.....Brinnon is BUSH COUNTRY

 

attached

[wally]

hoodwinked into war thats obsurd. subjecting youth to moore's crap to brain wash them into the left. Give youth both sides of any view and let them decide for themselves. After F-911 have them listen to sean hannity for a while. the pimp for the GOP

[cracked]

hoodwinked into war thats obsurd. subjecting youth to moore's crap to brain wash them into the left. Give youth both sides of any view and let them decide for themselves. After F-911 have them listen to sean hannity for a while. the pimp for the GOP

[sailBOI]

Regarding the attached map :

 

About the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in

the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The

University of Edinborough) had this to say about "The Fall of The

Athenian Republic" some 2,000 years prior.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a

permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up

until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves

generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the

majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits

from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will

finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed

by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning

of history, ! has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these

nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From Bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage;

>From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to

complacency; >From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence;

From dependence back into bondage."

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St. Paul,

Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the most recent

Presidential election:

Population of counties won by:

Gore=127 million

Bush=143 million

Square miles of land won by:

Gore=580,000

Bush=2,2427,000

States won by:

Gore=19

Bush=29

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:

Gore=13.2

Bush=2.1

Professor Olson adds:

"In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land

owned by the tax-paying citizens of this great country. Gore's

territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned

tenements and living off government welfare..."

 

Olson believes the U.S. is now somewhere between the "complacency and

"apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy; with some

40 percent of the nation's population already having reached the

"governmental dependency" phase.

[johndavidjr]

self-evident that New York and California--which went for Gore-- pay the lion's share of taxes. Forget about square miles-- what an utterly stupid point.

 

It's remotely interesting that the former Nixon political advisor Kevin Phillips actually has a faintly similar take on the cycle of economic empires like Spain, Holland, Britain and the U.S. compared with this obscure 18th Century writer.

 

Phillips, in a couple of books prior to his latest on the Bush "Dynasty," suggests that the best hope for the U.S. is attentiveness to middle-class interests, and provides reams of economic data from reputable sources, showing that Reagan=Bush policies were hostile to these interests in favor of the wealthy.

 

 

Thing that gets me is, the Federal Reserve's long-standing aim of keeping unemployment at about 5% of the U.S. labor force of 100+ million.....

_________________________________

[sailBOI]

Thing that gets me is, the Federal Reserve's long-standing aim of keeping unemployment at about 5% of the U.S. labor force of 100+ million.....

 

 

The FED us unconstitutional, and the Fiat monetary system is an immoral debt based hoax that could lead to the greatest threat to our Country......bankruptcy

[sailBOI]

Just curious, what should he have done? How should he have reacted? Jumped up and run out of the classroom? Start barking orders? If he did either of these he would have been vilified for unnecessarily scaring the kids and the school staff. He was in a no win situation as far as his opposition goes at that moment.

 

Oh please, how disingenuous! I see you read the Christopher Hitchens article. Sure, someone would have criticized Bush, whatever his reaction. Barking orders or running out would have obviously been inappropriate. But Bush is supposed to be the Commander-in-Chief, the guy who makes tough decisions, the guy who's LEADING THE COUNTRY. Instead of doing ANYTHING, he sat there doing NOTHING.

 

I know what he should have done: excuse himself politely from the classroom to talk with his advisers. Not difficult, not insulting to anyone. It's the kind of reaction that real leaders make in a crisis.

 

If you don't want to give your money to Michael Moore, come on up to Seattle and I'll pay for your ticket.

 

By the time Moore is finished with his little tirade, none of us will be able to afford a movie. Of course the alternative to Corporations is ( I knew it all along )

TA DA --- COMMUNISM

 

Moore's latest Tirade

[cj001f]

The FED us unconstitutional, and the Fiat monetary system is an immoral debt based hoax that could lead to the greatest threat to our Country......bankruptcy

So explain to us all how the gold standard would solve all our problems?

 

And that the Fed is to blame for bankruptcy and not deficit spending?