INFIDELS WE

[jon]

THE steaksauce OMG!

[iain]

I've seen that picture at least 100 times but still bust up every time

[catbirdseat]

Jon, that has got to be the most annoying thing I've ever seen posted on this board. Congratulations.

[jon]

That's a compliment coming from the most annoying person on the board.

[iain]

[cj001f]

This week we'd like to tell you some more great news about what's going

on here in Iraq that you will not read or hear on the news.

 

1. In the last month attacks on Iraqi police forces have decreased by

more than 50%.

 

2. Last quarter the dinar, Iraq's currency, increased almost 15% against the dollar.

Large purchases of Dinar's by the US Gov and subsidiaries.

8. This year Iraq is having a bumper harvest with record crops, especially wheat.

 

9. Iraq could become agriculturally self-sufficient for the first time in 30 years.

8) We're taking credit for the weather now?

9) If they're nearing self sufficency, why are the talking to the US Dept of Agriculture about grain importation? The terrain of Iraq isn't well suited to cereal production, but is suited to growing things like Dates - of which they are the largest exporter in the world.

10. Iraq's economic future looks good with water, fertile land, oil and hard working people. All they need is freedom.

From the CIA Factbook:

" Environmental Issues: inadequate supplies of potable water; development of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers system contingent upon agreements with upstream riparian Turkey; air and water pollution; soil degradation (salination) and erosion; desertification"

 

Believe whatever feel good tripe you want troll, it doesn't make it true.

[graupel]

Al Jazeera is not killing anyone. They certainly don't have any of my respect, though.

 

I think everyone in the states believes that Al Jazeera is bad because the US government tells us so. Does anybody actually watch it before drawing that conclusion? There was an interesting interview of the film maker of a documentary called "Control Room" on the Charlie Rose show about a week or so ago. This movie tries to show how "news" on the Iraq situation is rendered differently depending on the point of view.

 

A review of the movie is shown here:

http://worldfilm.about.com/cs/documentarie1/fr/controlroom.htm

 

I haven't seen this movie either, but it might be useful to see before drawing conclusions.

 

Official website about the movie: http://www.controlroommovie.com/

 

The web shows that it is playing at the Landmark Varsity Theater

4329 University Way NE, Seattle

[slothrop]

Al Jazeera showed restraint recently and did not show the entire video clip that purports to show Matt Maupin's execution.

 

I'll be seeing either Control Room or F9/11 tonight...

[sailBOI]

 

I'll be seeing either Control Room or F9/11 tonight...

 

As you drive your car ( running on Iraqui oil ) to the theater, keep an eye out for my "DEAN PEOPLE SUCK" bumper stickers

[slothrop]

I've got a bike and two strong legs. Learn to spell.

[sailBOI]

I've got a bike and two strong legs. Learn to spell.

 

You can still watch out for the "DEAN PEOPLE SUCK" bumper stickers.........maybe you will see one of Kerry's SUV's, the stickers are on there also

[Skeezix]

Keep putting your energy into spreading the "DEAN PEOPLE SUCK" message sailBOI! You're really getting somewhere that way, buddy.

[sailBOI]

Keep putting your energy into spreading the "DEAN PEOPLE SUCK" message sailBOI! You're really getting somewhere that way, buddy.

 

HEY, another friend

[Dr_Flash_Amazing]

Keep putting your energy into spreading the "DEAN PEOPLE SUCK" message sailBOI! You're really getting somewhere that way, buddy.

 

Don't forget to keep up the character assassinations on Clinton, too! It's really important to make sure that all Democratic ex-Presidents and also-rans look as bad as possible, for, um, some reason.

 

[JayB]

Al Jazeera showed restraint recently and did not show the entire video clip that purports to show Matt Maupin's execution.

 

I'll be seeing either Control Room or F9/11 tonight...

 

They also showed restraint when they declined to show the execution of the Italian hostage because it would offend their viewers' "muslim sensibilities." This was an interesting editorial decision, because in the final moments before his execution the hostage apparently rose to his feat and struggled while screaming "I'll show you how an Italian dies!" If this is true, it would certainly speak volumes about the nature of the "sensibilities" that the network is trying to protect. Footage of helpless, prostrate Westerners being slaughtered is okay, but footage of defiant Westerners summoning the courage to resist in the face of certain death is unpalatable.

 

For my part, I think that they should show every-last second of every execution, with surround sound so that their audience can get a glimpse of the true nature of the folks that they are cheerleading for with every broadcast. Dittto for the aftermath of all of the suicide/car/whatever bombings.

 

[murraysovereign]

For my part, I think that they should show every-last second of every execution, with surround sound so that their audience can get a glimpse of the true nature of the folks that they are cheerleading for wtih every broadcast.

 

That may not have the effect you intend - remember that in Saudi Arabia it's not that long ago that families would attend public beheadings almost as entertainment, much the same way Tower Green was a popular outing in London, as were the guillotinings in France and public hangings in North America. In the past 75 years or so we in the west have put some distance between ourselves and the executioner, but not so the rest of the world.

[assmonkey]

the hostage apparently rose to his feat and struggled while screaming "I'll show you how an Italian dies!"

 

That's fucking killer. If I were in that situation, I would hope to have half the balls and fortitude of that dude.

[Dru]

if they're going to kill you anyway at least die fighting

[JayB]

 

Here's the story:

 

'I'll show you how an Italian dies':

Hero Hostage

Sydney Morning Herald

April 16, 2004

 

The Italian hostage executed in Iraq tried to tear off his hood seconds before he was shot dead and screamed: "Now I'll show you how an Italian dies."

 

Details of the final moments of Fabrizio Quattrocchi deepened Italy's shock and outrage at the hostage crisis as it awaited further news of the three other men seized with him on Monday.

 

The Italian foreign minister, Franco Frattini, praised Mr Quattrocchi, 36, a former baker, was a hero. He told of the killing after Italy's ambassador to Qatar was shown the footage by the Arab television station Al-Jazeera, which has not broadcast the video.

 

"I have been authorised by the [victim's] family... to reveal the final words of this boy who died what I would call a courageous death, I would say like a hero," Mr Frattini said.

 

"When his assassins were pointing a gun at him, this boy tried to remove the hood and shouted: 'Now I'll show you how an Italian dies.' And they killed him."

 

Mr Quattrocchi's abductors shot him in the neck at close range. Al-Jazeera said that he was forced to dig his own grave....

[sailBOI]

Seen at :

http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=271857

 

World Situation - Critique it as an American not a Democrat or Republican. STRONG AND TO THE POINT---A MUST READ

 

Too thought provoking not to pass on ! If you want to read the below letter, doing so with an open mind will provide clearest understanding.

 

It is not for the faint of heart--wake up America, let's get our heads out of the sand!! Myra

 

 

THE WORLD SITUATION * A LETTER TO MY SONS

 

This was written by a retired attorney, to his sons, May 19, 2004.

 

Dear Tom, Kevin, Kirby and Ted,

 

As your father, I believe I owe it to you to share some thoughts on the present world situation. We have over the years discussed a lot of important things, like going to college, jobs and so forth. But this really takes precedence over any of those discussions. I hope this might give you a longer term perspective that fewer and fewer of my generation are left to speak to. To be sure you understand that this is not politically flavored, I will tell you that since Franklin D. Roosevelt, who led us through pre and WWII (1933 - 1945) up to and including our present President, I have without exception, supported our presidents on all matters of international conflict. This would include just naming a few in addition to President Roosevelt - WWII: President Truman - Korean War 1950; President Kennedy

-

Bay of Pigs (1961); President Kennedy - Vietnam (1961); [1] eight presidents (5 Republican & 4 Democrat) during the cold war (1945 - 1991); President Clinton's strikes on Bosnia (1995) and on Iraq (1998). [2] So be sure you read this as completely non-political or otherwise you will miss the point.

 

Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII). The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means.

 

First, let's examine a few basics:

 

1. When did the threat to us start? Many will say September 11th, 2001. The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us: Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979; Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983; Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983; Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988; First New York World Trade Center attack 1993; Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996; Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998; Dar es Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998; Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000; New York World Trade Center 2001; Pentagon 2001.

(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide). [3]

 

2. Why were we attacked? Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We can not fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

 

4. Who were the attackers? In each case of attacks on US they were Muslims.

 

5. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%

 

6.. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful? Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). ( http:// www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm ). Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the 6 million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others. Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way - their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else.. [5] The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing - by their own pronouncements - killing all of us infidels. I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

 

6. So who are we at war with? There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

 

So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?

 

2. What does losing really mean?

 

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions. We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - 'What does losing mean?'. It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get. What losing really means is:

 

. We would no longer be the premier country in the world.

 

. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly to terrorist attack us until we were neutered and submissive to them.

 

. We would of course have no future support from other nations for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see we are impotent and can not help them.

 

. They will pick off the other non Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do, will be done. Spain is finished.

 

. The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast. See the attached article on the French condition by Tom Segel. [6]

 

. If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else? The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war and therefore are completely committed to winning at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

 

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.

 

So, how can we lose the war? Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by imploding. That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win.

 

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation.

 

. President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between

17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war. For the duration we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently. And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then. Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him? No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.

 

. Some of us have gone so far out in our criticism of the war and/or our Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening, it concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.

 

. Of more recent vintage, the uproar fuelled by the politicians and media, regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein. And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type enemy fighters who recently were burning Americans and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq. And still more recently the same type enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of an American prisoner they held. Compare this with some of our press and politicians who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners - not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them. Can this be for real? The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.

 

To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned - totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they absolutely oblivious to the magnitude of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us for many years. Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels. That translates into all non- Muslims - not just in the United States, but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense.

 

We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant'. That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world. We can't. If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the World will survive if we are defeated. And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the Press, equal rights for anyone - let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the World.

 

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self inflicted fall of the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read.

 

If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

 

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece. And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power. They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"?

 

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I believe that after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about. Do whatever you can to preserve it.

 

Love, Dad

 

[1] By the way on Vietnam, the emotions are still so high that it is really not possible to discuss it. However, I think President Kennedy was correct. He felt there was a communist threat from China, Russia and North Vietnam to take over that whole area. Also remember that we were in a 'cold war' with Russia. I frankly think Kennedy's plan worked and kept that total communist control out, but try telling that to anyone now. It just isn't politically correct to say so. Historians will answer this after cool headed research, when the people closest to it are all gone.

 

[2] As you know, I am a strong President Bush supporter and will vote for him. However, if Senator Kerry is elected, I will fully support him on all matters of international conflict, just as I have supported all presidents in the past.

 

[3] Source for statistics in Par. 1 is

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html

 

[4] The Institute of Islamic Information and Education. http:// www.iiie.net/Intl/PopStats.html

 

[5] Note the attached article by Tom Segel referred to in Foot Note 6 infra, the terrorist Muslim have already begun the havoc in France.

(The note was not attached to the e-mail I received. Gene)

 

[6] I checked this article with two sources - Hoax Busters and Urban Myths. It does not come up as a Hoax on either. I also then e-mailed Mr. Segel and he confirmed the article was his.

 

[7] "I don't think the Army or any branch of service runs any type of war any more. It's done by senators and congressmen. There are too many civilians involved." Returning Iraq veteran, Sgt. 1st Class Greg Klees as quoted in the Cedar Rapids, IA Gazette on May13th, 2004.

 

[8] There are 64 Muslim countries. This does not count countries like Spain that are controlled by the Muslim terrorists.

[toptimmy]

Edited July 4, 2004 by toptimmy

[graupel]

So, since you believe this and post this here, do you also believe in the wacko end-of-the-world religious predictions too? Because these guys buy into your doom and gloom too

http://www.calvaryprophecy.com/

 

The same letter from the "anonymous retired lawyer" appears there too. Seems like a potential candidate for internet hoaxes: no source, billed as coming from someone you should trust "i.e. lawyer". If a father were to actually write a letter like this to you, you should disown him as a windbag.

 

Also, among the many points that whoever wrote that diatribe brought up, multiple sources contend that the population of prisoners at the prison where the abuse has been brought to light contained a high percentage of detainees that were not charged with anything, so claiming that they deserved harsh treatment just because they were Iraqis is a poor argument.

[wally]

God hates sin not the sinner

[sailBOI]

But the media tends to ignore the good done by Americans in Iraq...though it gets recognized by some:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/singingman777/Statue.htm