Lambone Posted June 8, 2004 Posted June 8, 2004 Saw this post over on rockclimbing.com and thought some of youguys might be interested... http://rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=768143#768143 Quote
Dru Posted June 8, 2004 Posted June 8, 2004 d00d ppl on that site are so gullible.... the bolts aren't even 1/4" they are more like 9/16" Quote
dbb Posted June 8, 2004 Posted June 8, 2004 The pioneer route/West Face variation to Pioneer route hookup is not the same as the West face "aid" route. http://www.englishengineering.com/dave/adventures/monkeywest/monkey.html Quote
Lambone Posted June 8, 2004 Author Posted June 8, 2004 how do you take a "whiper" on a bolt ladder? well...the bolt/crappt rivet/ or whatever could blow, causing you to zipper the other crappy bolts below it... or your crappy rivet hanger could break... or you could fall out of your aiders while trying to top-step and break your daisy chain... Not that i have done any of those things. I don't know anything about the route, just relaying something I read to folks who know Smith... Quote
shapp Posted June 9, 2004 Posted June 9, 2004 The poster at rockclimbing.com had it right. He climbed the "West face" which starts out as a bolted/mixed crack pitch then a couple pitches of bolt ladders to the cave. The picture above is the west face. If you turn the arete to the cracks on the second pitch then you are on the NW face. I have climbed both. Many bolts on the west face were 1/4 rivets. Last time I climbed it many years ago you could pull some out with your hands. However, prior to my ascent I believe the late Chris Pernell (may be mis-spelled) replaced the belay bolts and replaced a couple of the aid bolts with some bomber bolts. The face is steep so a ripping fall would be more fun than dangerous. In addition a hand full of machine bolts, a few key hangers, or some bat hooks should make the climb more fun. Last time I climbed it we stayed the night in the cave and I found a new petzel head lamp. The mice are nice and they keep a secret history of smith FA hidden deep within a crevase in the middle of the Monkey's head, but to see it you have to eat some mushrooms and get really small like Alice to climb in there. Shapp Quote
mtngrrrl Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 'What a curious feeling!' said Shapp; 'I must be shutting up like a telescope.' And so it was indeed: Shapp was now only ten inches high, and his face brightened up at the thought that he was now the right size for venturing into the Monkey's head to read secret tales of climbing history recorded in miniscule mouse script. Quote
Distel32 Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 Full TR is needed: liberty caps or cubenzis? Quote
Off_White Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 Full TR is needed: liberty caps or cubenzis? You got something against baeocystis, cyanescens, or the humble stunzi? Quote
Distel32 Posted June 10, 2004 Posted June 10, 2004 c'mon man I'm young! give me some time to experience all of them for myself Quote
wildbillc Posted June 11, 2004 Posted June 11, 2004 I made the original post on rockclimbing.com and am looking for some imput on replacing a few bolts, about 12' of the bolt ladder is gone and should be replaced, any comments on what should go in the holes? I would like to reuse the existing holes but this would require drilling them out for 3/8". Some imput I have recieved is original diameter bolts should be used, I still think 3/8" would be best for perserving the route in the long run. And Yes the route is the West Face Aid Route of Monkey Face. The condition of the route was posted in January on Smithrocks.com in the missing bolts section. Quote
Lambone Posted June 11, 2004 Author Posted June 11, 2004 use 1/4" rivets like everyone says, or don't do it at all. that is your only safe bet. Quote
catbirdseat Posted June 11, 2004 Posted June 11, 2004 Who's everyone? Why would you not replace 1/4" with 3/8" so the job will last a few years? Quote
Dru Posted June 11, 2004 Posted June 11, 2004 cause 3/8" are A0 and rusty 1/4" buttonheads are A1 Quote
wildbillc Posted June 11, 2004 Posted June 11, 2004 So drill new 1/4" holes vs drill out exesting holes to 3/8"? Or is there some type of glue in 1/4" that would fit well in a tapered hole? Im not sure if every one understands the nature of the rock on the route, it is not granit. Quote
EWolfe Posted June 11, 2004 Posted June 11, 2004 What Lammy is saying is: It's an adventure route! Bring your 5-step aiders, unless you are tall. Quote
dbb Posted June 11, 2004 Posted June 11, 2004 I think the only difference here is going to be longevity. If he puts in Rawl Split drive 1/4" button heads, they're rated to 1200 lbs--plenty to catch any bolt ladder fall. Only difference between that and 3/8" is that they'll be rusted out in 10 years and need replacing again, in yet another hole. (No 1/4" stainless is available) In my opinion, that doesn't decrease the adventure factor on a bolt ladder. If this were a rivet or two on a otherwise "natural" aid pitch I would be all for replacing it with 1/4" to preserve the experience of the route. I'm also all for preserving this route's character, but I doubt that fatter bolts on the bolt ladder is going to change it. Ask yourself this: When the pioneer route was rebolted in the mid 90's, would you have rather they put in 1/4"ers (like the original) that would by now start needing replacement? Quote
Dru Posted June 11, 2004 Posted June 11, 2004 you can buy stainless 1/4" at mec stainless 1/4' x 1 3/4" Quote
dberdinka Posted June 11, 2004 Posted June 11, 2004 Reuse the holes! If that means drilling it out to 3/8" so be it. That is a lot better option than drilling new holes next to the old ones IMHO. Clipping fixed gear is clipping fixed gear, if someone is going to be bent out of shape that a bolt ladder is in good condition they should be aiding up that big scary wall near the parking lot! Quote
slaphappy Posted June 11, 2004 Posted June 11, 2004 3/8" would be best but... If there is a concern about preserving the nature of the route ... They also make 1/4" Rawl 5-piece that would hold far better in that crap stone. Oversizing to 5/16" to allow Fixe button heads is an option as well, although the stone may fail while pounding them in. Quote
Picketeer Posted June 12, 2004 Posted June 12, 2004 Put something in that will last awhile--3/8" bolts. The "missing bolts" are not referring to the bolts on the Pioneer Route aid pitch, which are 5/8". Putting new 1/4" in Smith Tuff will just swiss cheese the stone when they inevitably work loose and have to be replaced. I was climbing Ancient Art in the Fisher Towers outside Moab in March (conglomerated mud/sandstone-stuff has granite and quartz cobbles embedded in it) and the belay placements were pincushioned with crummy bolts, manky 1/4" bolts and old holes. Let's try to avoid this at Smith! Quote
thrutch Posted June 12, 2004 Posted June 12, 2004 Stainless 1/4" are brittle and should always be treated as suspect. I would go with redrilling the holes and putting in 3/8" SS hardware. Quote
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