chucK Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 (edited) Isn't that perception mainly fueled by the fact that his position cannot be labled YES or NO? (and the republican lie machine ) My understanding of the issue is that he does not want to make any laws prohibiting outsourcing, but he does want to change tax laws that currently create incentives for outsourcing. Sounds like a great position to me! More money in the coffers to fund our imperialism , more of it coming from those who make money by sending US dollars out of the country. Edited May 13, 2004 by chucK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Shouldn't Martlett, and Gotterdamerung be weighing in on this? Did they finally get offended? Gotterdamerung is smart enough to see through this transparent non-issue, and, though he hates Kerry, would rather not have to resort to lies and deceptions to smear him? Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Isn't it just that his position cannot be labled YES or NO? Sadly if you look at the context of his comments it becomes obvious that kerry has in fact flipped on this issue. His years in the senate have improved his ability to obfuscate and say things with a conviction and a vagueness that defies belief. (compare his recent coments to his younger days) You might have a point with your "1 vote loss" theory, however, in this case I think you are simply able to sustain an incredibly high volume of cognative dissonance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Opinions change, situations change, and votes change. Expecting somebody to maintain a completely consistent voting record is idiotic. And as somebody else pointed out the major reason for voting against bills is often to vote against riders and other stupid crap the opposing party slaps on to dillute or make the bill unpalatable. I suppose we can't compare his record to GWB since GWB esentially came into the presidency with no acutal experience aside from having the govenorship of texas handed to him thanks to connections, political ties and family name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marylou Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 A lot of the current outsourcing miasma can be blamed on the Ds. Lots of Ds have supported it as part of the global economy that is the world today. I think the Ds and the Rs support it for some different reasons, but to make it a partisan issue is to fail to see the whole picture. Remember, NAFTA and WTO are Clinton-era changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 I suppose we can't compare his record to GWB since GWB esentially came into the presidency with no acutal experience aside from having the govenorship of texas handed to him thanks to connections, political ties and family name. Ummm...Josh...he's been president of the United States for almost 4 years now. I think he's established a record we can use to evaluate him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 I suppose we can't compare his record to GWB since GWB esentially came into the presidency with no acutal experience aside from having the govenorship of texas handed to him thanks to connections, political ties and family name. Ummm...Josh...he's been president of the United States for almost 4 years now. I think he's established a record we can use to evaluate him. LOL. Yes, of course, that was dumb. I was thinking of a pre-presedency senate or house voting record since obviously congress is the one that votes on all of the bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 (edited) I think you are simply able to sustain an incredibly high volume of cognative dissonance. If that means what I think it does, yes. It is difficult with Kerry, but failing that in almost all cases I can easily fall back to "he's way less evil than the other guy"! Actually, I'm not really worried about the outsourcing thing at all. Trying to prohibit it is stupid and impractical IMHO. It's like Star Wars or something. Kerry is not a total ignoramus and if he gets elected, I am confident that he will not destroy himself trying to vanquish outsourcing. If he wants to hold his cards a little closer to his vest to not turn off the the ignorami who think we can kill outsourcing with an M-16 or a Nucular Bomb, that's fine with me. Edited May 13, 2004 by chucK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Ok one run for the Flip Flop team! Quest accepted Quest accomplished. Response...its ok I dont care! PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Ok one run for the Flip Flop team! Quest accepted Quest accomplished. Response...its ok I dont care! PP what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 How about 50 billion flip flops? http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/13/iraq.spending.ap/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 I made it too easy on you. You didn't even present any facts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 The whole argument against Kerry in this thread is pathetic. All you have is Kerry possibly changing tunes on outsourcing and missing one vote in the senate. Grasping for straws my friends. Now where are the real criticisms. This lame ass childs play will get Bush tossed on his ass in November. I expected more from the rabid conservatives, but perhaps they have grown complacent in the warm glow of war, death, torture and recession. Keep up the good work mates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj001f Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 2. Kerry caused the bill to extend said benefits to fail by not showing up to vote. The question of course begs - how was the vote scheduled? It's not entirely implausible that the R Senate leadership would schedule a quick vote, knowing Kerry was out of time. Wouldn't be the first time either Party had done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackY Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 What's the point of this political ping pong? Has anybody been brought to the dark (other) side? It looks like we are divided, period. Who's on the fence? Anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martlet Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 The whole argument against Kerry in this thread is pathetic. All you have is Kerry possibly changing tunes on outsourcing and missing one vote in the senate. Grasping for straws my friends. Now where are the real criticisms. This lame ass childs play will get Bush tossed on his ass in November. I expected more from the rabid conservatives, but perhaps they have grown complacent in the warm glow of war, death, torture and recession. Keep up the good work mates. Missing one vote? He missed like 90% of them last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klenke Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 I'm on the fence, JackY. Anyone else? If Kerry develops a stance, a platform that I agree with, I will vote for him. As it stands now I will not vote for him simply to vote against Bush. That is, I'd rather vote for neither. Kerry needs to tell me more about his intentions first and not straddle the issues, not simply tell me that Bush sucks. Telling me Bush sucks in the present isn't going to do anything for 2005-2008 (the next political term). I know what Bush is all about. I don't know what Kerry is all about other than he's not about Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehead Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Someone mentioned in one of the threads (can't find it now) that he'd be for a Kerry/McCain ticket with the Republican in the VP position to lend dealings with the Iraqi situation an air of respectability and honor. Well, it looks like that matchup won't happen but Kerry has given his support to solicit McCain's expertise as his Defense Secretary if elected ( Kerry says he wants Republican McCain as defence secretary ). So, would you rather have McCain or Rumsfield as Defense Secretary? All I remember is that Rumsfield called for fewer troops to handle the Iraqi situation in difference to some military officials who called for greater numbers of troops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Umm, I think any sane person would rather have McCain as secretary of defense. What does Rumsfeld wanting less troops have anything to do with it? Frankly, that's just more evenidence of the fucked up war effort. They had to start pouring in more troops early one when it was evnident they had misplanned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 I agree that Bush is lacking oratory skills, but that doesn't make him stupid. His speaking skills may just be a symptom of his problem. Bush may surround himself with people someone has told him are smart, but a commander in chief has to be able to weigh all the oppinions of these, "smart," people and come up with a decision. No matter how smart his cabinet is Bush has to be smart enough to make the best decision. In my view Bush is lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martlet Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 No matter how smart his cabinet is Bush has to be smart enough to make the best decision. I think he does. It's evident Kerry can't make ANY decision, though, let alone the best one. If decision making is your prequal for who you're supporting as POTUS, that must mean you're voting for Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpineK Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 No I'm voting for Kerry. I don't agree with any of your points. Bush is stupid, he hates the environment, and his thinking is based on his born again religious doctrine which says the end of the world in near. I hear you're just a big act Martlet, and in reality you voted for Clinton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martlet Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 No I'm voting for Kerry. I don't agree with any of your points. Bush is stupid, he hates the environment, and his thinking is based on his born again religious doctrine which says the end of the world in near. I hear you're just a big act Martlet, and in reality you voted for Clinton. Excellent argument. You've really laid out the facts. Let me translate that for you: "I know Kerry is a moron. I realize he contradicts himself almost every time he opens his mouth. I'm voting for him anyway because I hate Bush. Since I don't have a compelling argument, or a counterpoint, I'll just use the remainder of my post for an irelevant ad hom. You suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobBob Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Martlet- definition - Feces containing tp flag found above the firn line. ex.- "The martlet clung to his crampon despite repeated efforts to kick the nasty thing loose." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martlet Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Martlet- definition - Feces containing tp flag found above the firn line. ex.- "The martlet clung to his crampon despite repeated efforts to kick the nasty thing loose." Yeah, it's tough having someone expect you to back up what you say, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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