bellemontagne Posted May 19, 2002 Share Posted May 19, 2002 I know I am beating a dead horse with this topic, but I've had it with dogs running loose at the crags! Scenario: I was at the columns today to take a couple of my friends climbing for the first time. There was a couple climbing nearby who brought their black lab with them only to let it run loose unleashed. Well, while I was off somewhere else and not paying attention to my stuff, the dog decided to pee on the rope and my superslacker tarp. By the time I realized what had happened, the owners had left with their dog. DAMNIT... I wish I could have given them a piece of my mind!!! I still think I will write a note and leave it at the columns message board in the hopes the owners may see it. Man that pisses me off!!!!! I absolutely love dogs, but sometimes I CANNOT STAND dog owners. Some owners drag their dogs along with them when they go to the crag only to be totally irresponsible for their care. Some of the stuff I have seen drives me nuts!!!! In the end it wasn't a bad day after all. My friends had a great time climbing; however, belaying them with a pissy rope wasn't much fun. Luckily, I was able to wash the rope within a few hours of the pissing incident so potential rope damage was minimized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted May 19, 2002 Share Posted May 19, 2002 I've never heard of Spray being taken so literally before... That sucks! The Columns (aka Skinner's Butte) is more of a rec. park than a crag. It's in the middle of the city so there are all kinds of people going through there all the time - you definitely have to keep one eye on everything at all times. People will steal your stuff while you're climbing only 20 ft. away; degenerates break glass all over; sketchy people wander down from the hills in obviously altered states at all hours; tweakers threaten to commit suicide by jumping from the top, making for an ugly scene until the cops show up; gapers show up and decide to free solo; kids run around unattended; people will just clip into the anchor bolts you are using; and there is quite a bit of generally unsafe activity practiced by various people. Now, in addition to dogs that bite and dogs that run around unattended, there are dogs that run around and piss on your gear!!! It just makes me appreciate the rare occasions I have shown up there to rope solo and found I had the place all to myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Schuldt Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Some dogs just lay down near there owners stuff, that's cool. Some dogs just can't handle climbing and whine while their owners are up on the rock. While at Moon Rocks we had to wait on the decent trail for the fucking owners of a German Sheperd to come down and keep the dog from theatening us, it would not let us pass. I love dogs. Note to dog owners; you need to spend time with your dog, If it can't handle climbeng then don't take it. I am shure youu feel guilty leaving it at home while you are out having fun. Tough shit, you got the dog, now you have to take care of it eaven if that care interfears with your climbing. Before youu pick up that cute puppy think carefuly about how it will efect you lifestyle. I would love to have one, however, it would not work with my curent situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 In case you were wondering, they're dark meat. Supposed to be an aphrodisiac. The Koreans like it in stew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellemontagne Posted May 20, 2002 Author Share Posted May 20, 2002 I also hear canine meat is a delicasy in Indonesia... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allison Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Cats RULE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: Cats RULE! I hear they taste like chicken. I'll have to try some soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figger_Eight Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Any dog that threatens me gets a "Vibram" stamp on their forehead from the bottom of my boot. Dog's that aren't socialized don't belong near people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 How do you know that was dog pee and not human pee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDXClimber Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 "Any dog that threatens me gets a "Vibram" stamp on their forehead from the bottom of my boot. For myself (and many others that I have talked to), if someone were to physically strike or injure my dog it would be similar to some adult deciding to slap one of my kids in the face. Neither action would have a pleasant ending. "Dog's that aren't socialized don't belong near people." Its the owners that keep dogs from hanging around people that have dogs that are not well socialized. Dogs need to be exposed to as many other dogs and people as possible, especially as puppies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 I'm a dog guy. I've owned Labs since I was a little kid. But...on the trail, if threatened by a large dog, I take it as serious as being threatened by a bear or cat. If the situation escalates, I will take whatever measures are necessary to protect myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 I agree the behavior of children and dogs is determined in most cases by the training and teaching of the parent/owner. Hate to equate, but owning a dog is very mich like having a child. I don't think most people take the responsability seriously enough. So perhaps instead of kicking the dog, it would be more apropriate to kick the owner. not that I aprove of violence, but if you feel the need to strike, it should be in the correct direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juneriver Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by PDXClimber: [QB]"Any dog that threatens me gets a "Vibram" stamp on their forehead from the bottom of my boot. For myself (and many others that I have talked to), if someone were to physically strike or injure my dog it would be similar to some adult deciding to slap one of my kids in the face. Neither action would have a pleasant ending. QB] Ummm... If your dog is threatening to people, it doesn't belong around people no matter how much you feel like he's your kid. If your kid is of age to make me feel truly threatened, he better expect that same Vibram stamp. And yes that would be the owner's/parent's fault. Jamie P.S. Yes, I love my dog... but we play at home, not at the crag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 I agree to a point, SK, but if attacked by a dog, that dog needs to be neutralized first. You can't go around stomping people anymore unless you have deep pockets and plenty of free time for court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by PDXClimber: "Any dog that threatens me gets a "Vibram" stamp on their forehead from the bottom of my boot. For myself (and many others that I have talked to), if someone were to physically strike or injure my dog it would be similar to some adult deciding to slap one of my kids in the face. Neither action would have a pleasant ending. You are right PDX. If your dog is threatening me or my kids, YOU are the one who should get injured and you might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by trask: I agree to a point, SK, but if attacked by a dog, that dog needs to be neutralized first. You can't go around stomping people anymore unless you have deep pockets and plenty of free time for court. I do agree with you trask, If a dog was threatening my children I would not hesitate to do whatever I had to do to keep them safe, as much as I love dogs. We actualy have had a mean dog at rope-de-dope @ smith cause some trouble. He was tied, but, he was MEAN and did NOT like kids. The owners were fairly cool about the whole thing, and no one got hurt, But I didn't get to climb much because I was on super kid alert. [ 05-20-2002, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: sk ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 For the life of me, I don't understand why people have to bring their goddamned dogs into the mountains in the first place. The dogs frequently have an unsettling effect on other people and the wild animals indigenous to the area. I go into the mountains to get away from people, job, dogs, etc... The only animals I want to see out there are the natives. If people insist on bringing Fido into the mountains, than they must accept any and all consequences for their decision. Keep your damn dogs out of the mountains. [ 05-20-2002, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: trask ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juneriver Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 quote: Originally posted by sk: [QB The owners were fairly cool about the whole thing, and no one got hurt, But I didn't get to climb much because I was on super kid alert.[/QB] This to me seems like the owners are not that cool. They were inconsiderate enough to bring a mean dog along, and you get to pay for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 bastards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 I run into that alot! Some dogs are way cool and fun to have along, and actualy entertain my kids. Thats alot of fun, and then I get to climb SUPER hard . There is balence in the universe Some places it's just better to not have the kids along at all. We try to stay aware of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappellini Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 I have dogs...when i recreate the dogs go....if the dogs can't go (eg national parks) i don't go...as far as a leash, they don't even wear collars....they tend to keep snafflehounds out of the packs and enjoy chasing other vermin..i mean wildlife for the city folks....my dogs listen and typically come to a quick wistle or a couple of claps...yea sure some humans are bad and their dogs may not know much but at least the poor creatures get to go out and have some fun...what fun is collar and chain, isn't that what the man has you fitted with five days a week and that is part of the reason why your at the crags......i agree with most of what you all say, although if the dog pissed on your rope chances are it stunk like something worse and needed to be washed or thrown out, that's why the dog felt a need to piss on it....if you don't want dogs at crags, than go climb in yosemite or zion...if a generally likeable dog is threatening you, particularly a german shepard, chances are you are acting suspicious or guilty and you might want to lighten up...humans have had dogs for companions since the very seeds of civilized cohabitation (the stone age), if you are so uncivilized that you can't appreciate dogs than go back in whatever cube shaped hole you crawled out of and leave rocks for cave people and their canine companions........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juneriver Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Cap, That is one of the most selfish, dumbassed things I have ever read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_Puget Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 PDX - If my teenage son threatened someone on a trail and got punched out I would have a very short supply of sympathy for him. Even less for a threatening canine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Sometimes I take my dogs to Smith, sometimes not. Its hardly a wilderness environment and if you are hoping for a sojourn with nature a la trask, then you are in the wrong place. If my dogs start acting like assholes (generally they lay down and chill) I stop what I am doing and rememdy the situation (i.e. leave). Like anything, a bit of common sense goes a long way. I recognize not everyone likes dogs nor do they want to pet my dog so I respect that. I've had just about as many bad encounters with people who bring their kids to the crag as I have with dogs. Nothing freaks me out more than to hear a kid let out a wail as I'm making that crux dyno on the 5.4 I am hangdogging. I think people are a far bigger problem than dogs but maybe I just like dogs more. I rarely bring my dogs with me when I mountaineer but don't have any more of a problem seeing a dog on a mountain top as I do a person. Its not "natural" for either of us to be there. On a hiking trail? Well, you ARE on a trail, no? Its been my experience that its a bummer to see anyone on a trail when I am specifically trying to get away from it all but usually any encounter like this tends to be brief so I dont fret over it. The problem as I see it is more of an owner-related issue than the dogs. If people showed more respect and consideration we'd all be a lot happier. Oh, and if someones dog threatened me physically, then I am justified in using force to protect myself. In the unlikely case where my dog takes after someone they are welcome to use force on him. As a dog owner, you have a repsonibility to your pet and others to recognize what sets the dog off. In one of my dogs case, skateboarders and in-line skates make him aggro (the other dog only gets aggro around food). I keep him leashed if there is any chance of him encountering that. If he hurts someone thats my fault--not his or anyone elses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Hey cap, if I run into you camping, I'm gunna send my kids to your site to rummidge in your stuff. My 6 yr. old realy likes cams. Who said I should keep my eye on them, Takes a villige right? I should just let my little ones run free and do what ever they want to do. Who needs civilisztion, or considerstion. Who gives a rats ass about or fellow creatures, or how any one else feels. BTW your dog bites my kid, and there will be hell to pay. I dig the hippy dog thing. I know a dog named spirit that is pretty much a woman in fur. But, she NEVER causes a problem. Realy depends on the dog, and the kid. Would it realy make you feel good if YOU and YOUR DOG ruiend some one elses trip? A puppy pissed on the rope, not a dog. Puppies will pee on anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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