marylou Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 In the Cascades, can a beacon save your life if you are caught in an avalanche, or is it simply a body recovery device? Cite examples if you have any. Discuss. No flaming please. Quote
Coopah Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 No examples but just common sense...if you are with others that have beacons & can get to you with in ~15 minutes, you have a fighting chance...otherwise they are for recovery. Sometimes you just have to wait for the spring melt... Quote
iain Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 Beacons have a track record of saving lives. Use them. Quote
cracked Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 A rope in the mountains might save your life. No guarantee you won't get mangled. Should you use them? Quote
E-rock Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 "Beacons don't save lives, partners do." Quote
cj001f Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 Beacons have a track record of saving lives. Use them. Beacons do save lives. Use them. If you've ever taken part in a probe line - you'll use a beacon everytime. That said, beacons track record is nowhere near as good as a climbing rope. This study http://www.bcaccess.com/pdf/CompanionRescue_Atkins.pdf has only 32% of recreational transceiver searches being succesful. DON'T GET CAUGHT! Quote
iain Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 they make cool sounds and blinking lights too Quote
gapertimmy Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 i personally feel much more like a hard man with a beacon on, and always have a spare just in case i get the opportunity to properly size a harness on a girl. Quote
iain Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 timmay I've always admired the way you think outside the box. so enterprising. Quote
gapertimmy Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 just taking a page from the stuntaz handbook sorry for the thread dift Allison, but honestly, spend the cash, and ski with people who know how to use em. Quote
mattp Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 We've had this discussion on this site each of the last two or three years, I think. I have become more and more convinced that beacons probably DO NOT save as many lives as has been suggested. The Colorado article cited above has a very small sample size, so from it alone I wouldn't accept any figure of 19 dead : 9 alive as necessarily indicative of what we will see in the long run. Their statement that nearly identical survival statistics have been reported in Switzerland tends to support these survival percentages, but still I thinik this does not tell the complete story. Later in the article it compares recovery rates using transceivers to those with other methods and the "results" for transceivers are not all that impressive, really. "Transceivers in the hands of recreationalists are even less effective than spot probing," it says, with spot probing being simply looking at terrain and probing in low spots or where you see a mitten on the surface or something. Might some of the successful recoveries using beacons have been also accomplished with spot probing? We don't know. The real drawback of the study and others like it is that they generally do not compare the overall survival rates for skiers and climbers who venture into the mountains with and without beacons. It is an open topic for debate, but I believe there is a very large likelihood that the use of avalanche beacons enables us to feel safer when measuring up a potentially dangerous slope. If the idea that we may be rescued enters into our analysis in any conscious or unconscious manner whatever, we may in fact choose to take risks we would otherwise have avoided. Consider, too, that our snow here in the PNW is generally heavier and wetter than elsewhere. I bet our survival rates for buried avalance victims are lower than they might be in, say, Colorado. I agree with the statement above that "beacons do save lives. Use them. If you've ever taken part in a probe line - you'll use a beacon everytime." However, consider the very real risk associated with venturing into avalanche terrain: like cj001f said: don't get caught! Quote
jon Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 A beacon is kinda like car insurance, chance are you won't get in an accident, you have it "in case shit". Like someone pointed out, the beacon doesn't save the life, the user does. Quote
fern Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 I have no doubt that if I am ever buried in an avalanche I will die. But I don't want my last thoughts to be "I wish I'd worn a beacon, at least then I'd have a small chance" Quote
Blake Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 Just don't get enough Beacon Argument in Chat eh? Quote
ken4ord Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 A beacon is kinda like car insurance, chance are you won't get in an accident, you have it "in case shit". Like someone pointed out, the beacon doesn't save the life, the user does. I think it is more like a seat belt, yeah it might help save your life in a accident, but there is no garantee that it will. Quote
marylou Posted February 12, 2004 Author Posted February 12, 2004 sorry for the thread dift Allison, but honestly, spend the cash, and ski with people who know how to use em. I already have one. I am more interested in the trends and thought on usefulness among this group. Generally I err on the side of caution. You might say I am conducting a little informal research on the subject for some article I'm writing. Continue discussion. Quote
Bronco Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 good read on beacons and avvy courses here: http://www.adventureplus.org/avalanche.htm Quote
iain Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 It would be difficult to convince me a beacon is not a good idea, since it sends you directly to where the person is, every time. Whatever statistics there are out there, all the spot probing in likely terrain or around "clues" I've done in scenarios seems rather desperate and incredibly unreliable. Again that's just a scenario but it sure would be miserable in "real life". Quote
cj001f Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 Whatever statistics there are out there, all the spot probing in likely terrain or around "clues" I've done in scenarios seems rather desperate and incredibly unreliable. Again that's just a scenario but it sure would be miserable in "real life". My scenario experience is similar - it's a good 30-45 minutes before you find someone that way. They are already on the downhill part of the survival curve by then. Quote
catbirdseat Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 Buy a Tracker as your second beacon. Give it to your girlfriend to carry. Quote
b-rock Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 Buy a Tracker as your second beacon. Give it to your girlfriend to carry. He he he that sounds familiar. Quote
eternalX Posted February 12, 2004 Posted February 12, 2004 timmay I've always admired the way you think outside the box. so enterprising. Funny. i get the impression he's thinking ABOUT the box, not outside it. Quote
marylou Posted February 12, 2004 Author Posted February 12, 2004 Buy a Tracker as your second beacon. Give it to your girlfriend to carry. Heh, I got mine for Christmas. Quote
iain Posted February 13, 2004 Posted February 13, 2004 was there a bag of lambourghinis in your stocking too? Quote
marylou Posted February 13, 2004 Author Posted February 13, 2004 No, but I thought the beacon made a pretty nice present in and of itself. Quote
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