How do you clip your belay biner to your harness?

[Alyosha]

I clip my "belay biner" (HMS locking biner to which I attach my belay device) to my harness's belay loop, which is what the instructions that come with my harness tell me to do.

 

But I've seen a few people who cheerfully disregard the fact that their harness is equipped with that belay loop thing, and clip their "belay biner" through the leg piece and the waist piece of their harness, the way the rope would go for tie-in (or perhaps simply clip it around the leg piece and the harness waist belt -- I haven't looked closely enough to remember exactly). Whenever I asked them to explain why they're doing it this way, all I got was "my friend/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/dog/cat/hamster, who has been climbing for ten years does it that way." My reaction to that iron-clad argument has generally been "and my great-grandpa used to tie a hemp rope around his waist, and call it good, but he died." Yet nagging doubt remains, "maybe, I'm missing something here?" Am I? (Their friend who told them to do it that way never seems to be on hand ) Note that I'm not asking about harnesses that don't have a belay loop by design.

 

Thank you

[fern]

you right they wrong ... RTFM

[chucK]

I don't have a harness with a belay loop anymore, but I used to. I've always put the belay 'biner through the tie-in point. I've found that having the belay device closer to me makes it easier to bring in rope more quickly. Seems like having the belay device dangle down on that belay loop would be a PITA too.

 

If this practice of mine is gonna kill me or my partner, I'd love to find this out before it does. An in depth explanation would also be appreciated.

[catbirdseat]

Both ways are safe. I like having the biner vertical so that the ATC is horizontal. The rope gets twisted less if it is going straight across the ATC.

Edited February 5, 2004 by catbirdseat

[gslater]

Except when NOT using the belay loop, and threading the biner through as if tying in, it's easier for the biner to end up resting in a position where there is cross-loading on the gate.

[chucK]

I just got me a Reverso though, so now that belay biner is gonna be clipped into the power point baby! Yeah.

[glacier]

I used to set up my belay similar, but the current wisdom (vie Petzl, I believe) is that clipping in through the waist loop and crotch loop can create a triaxial load on the belay biner. hence - the clip in through the belay loop. If you use a grigri, the setup actually works better, as the grigri is perpendicular to the biner, and the rope can be fed/controlled a bit smoother. Another reason - if you are on a multi-pitch, it can be a pain to thread the belay biner through the same loops that you are tied in to.

 

final note - the belay loop is typically the strongest loop/stiching in the harness. Of course, always tie in through the waist/crotch loop combo though, because these points are reinforced to take the wear and tear of the rope abrasion.

[chucK]

Another reason - if you are on a multi-pitch, it can be a pain to thread the belay biner through the same loops that you are tied in to.

 

Do you take your belay device and biner on and off or something? What does multipitch have to do with it?

Edited February 5, 2004 by chucK

[J_Fisher]

BD says the same thing as Petzl on this, i.e. not using the belay loop is more likely to cross load the belay biner and is therefor bad. This may be true in general but I also notice that using the belay loop actually makes it more likely the biner will slip completely sideways, loading the rope directly on the gate. This is not a good thing, obviously. However I always use the belay loop just cuz it's easier and less clusterfucky when you're tied into the rope.

 

I've heard people say they belay off the tie in points b/c of redundancy and a one-less-link-to-break theory. This seems a little silly since I think the number of reported cases of belay loop failure is zero, but whatever floats yer boat.

[catbirdseat]

The Alpine Bod harness doesn't even have a belay loop and no one worries about triaxial loading with that one.

[chucK]

F*cking Black Diamond manipulative campaign

[Stephen_Ramsey]

BD says the same thing as Petzl on this, i.e. not using the belay loop is more likely to cross load the belay biner and is therefor bad. This may be true in general but

This probably depends on the harness you are using. The BD Alpine Bod harness, for example, has no belay loop whatsoever. And I believe it is a perfectly safe harness for belaying, when used correctly. It's pretty much the only harness I use.

 

Just my $0.02.

Edited February 6, 2004 by Stephen_Ramsey

[jkrueger]

I wonder why they call it a belay loop, anyway?

[b-rock]

The Alpine Bod harness doesn't even have a belay loop and no one worries about triaxial loading with that one.

 

Yeah, but there is extra room in the seat loop for this purpose (you can pull the loop up to the buckle).

[fern]

An in depth explanation would also be appreciated.

 

I bet one came with your harness and/or your belay device. It is called the Instruction Manual ... that's what the 'M' stands for.

[jkrueger]

Of course, always tie in through the waist/crotch loop combo though, because these points are reinforced to take the wear and tear of the rope abrasion.

As a creature of habit, I always tied in the same way -- that being consistently to the same side of the belay loop. Had I alternated which side of the belay loop I tied in through, I probably wouldn't have a harness that was theadbare on one side of the belay loop and pristine on the other.

 

Kinda like rotating your tires.

[iain]

I kindof like putting the biner through leg loop and waist loop when big lead whippers are a possibility since there is often slack in the rope when belaying a lead so the biner kindof flops around on the belay loop and could be loaded across the gate. your mileage may vary. maybe my concern is unfounded.

[sk]

there are way old harnesses that do not have the belay loop.. then you would want to use the tie in point... but if there is a belay loop seems easy enough to use it

[Cando]

Does anybody use a short sewn spectra sling to attach? I have seen folks use a short sling on an BD alpine bod to attach their belay biner. Doesn't it essential becomes a belay loop on the harness...

[iain]

yeah but it doesn't have the abrasion resistance that honkin belay loop has. Some people extend their belay devices that way when rappeling to get increased manuverability and a bit of extra friction, esp. when doing a pickoff or something similar.

[Dru]

on a related note when climbing a multipitch, you finish belaying and start climbing, do you move your belay device and biner back to a gear loop or leave it clipped to your belay loop where it can clunk you in the nads and get stuck in gear/rope as you clean? the correct answer to this question should be obvious

[iain]

rest, ice, compresion, and elevation ( ) Dru and you should be okay in a few days.

[chucK]

But if you don't use the damn belay loop then you don't have to worry about all that extra effort.

[JayB]

Everyone I know who has yet to reproduce and wishes to retain the capacity to do so has sworn off all of the variations of BD's "Bod" harness for ever.

 

- And I use the belay loop.

[glacier]

Yer right, I usually just hip belay - then my kidneys are the only things getting cross-loaded.