Softshells: the big myth

[Lambone]

Hey guys...(marylou, beck, cracked, joshk, etc...)

 

Allthough your spray is good natured...which is a nice change, it does not belong in the gear critic forum. I am going to continue to keep this forum on topic and gear related, so save us both the trouble and keyboard time and move your personal discussions to the chat room or Spray or something. Thanks much, Bone

 

BTW- some good info in this thread, keep it up! Sure it's only nylon were talking about but gearheads don't discriminate!

[lummox]

marylou said:

All softshells repel water nicely when new. It's pretty amazing how well a knit or stretch woven fabric can do this.

[avoiding the obvious chances to diss marylou] i have these weird pants thats made from shizzle that is hydrophobic (nylon is a phillic of the hydro). water just beads up and runs off unless they get all greasy and shit. got em years ago from peal izumi. wonder why i havent seen anything like it since?

[bunglehead]

I know this has already been kind of discussed, but has anybody had any experience with Beyond Fleece?

[Lambone]

yeah, Pear Izumi makes some nice stuff actually, kind of overlooked by climbers, I baught a pair of insulated climbing gloves this fall that I used iceclimbing in Canada, worked just as good as any BD glove.

[lummox]

bunglehead said:

I know this has already been kind of discussed, but has anybody had any experience with Beyond Fleece?

you talking bout like with horses?

[bunglehead]

That's funny, but no I'm referring to the Eugene based company that makes custom shells.

[JayB]

I bought some WB-400 pants from them this fall and will buy from them again in the future. I had to make a couple of changes after I placed my order and they updated the specifications instantaneously - and ultimately I ended up with a pair of very well put-together, custom-fit pants for about $80 less than mass produced competitors about a week after placing my order. Definite

[rbw1966]

Do I understand this correctly: you got a pair of custom made pants in about a week?

[EWolfe]

Softshells are yummy! Especially in the spider-rolls.

[Dru]

 

in this famous painting by bolticelli, "Venus on the Softshell", naked Venus in the centre, must choose between the Gore tex technology on the left, represented by the allegorical figures Waterproof and Breathable, or go with her instincts and choose the Softshell offered by the symbolic Stretch Woven and Form Fitting person on the right.

[marylou]

Hey that Softshell Proof stuff worked well, BTW. It does coat your hands with the same stuff though, I'd use gloves for this project next time.

[cwacked]

cracked said:

Beck said:

...just trying to keep the humor up, marylou!

 

softshells over goretex 90% of the time IMO.

But doesn't a softshell over goretex reduce breathability? Or are you cold? What's the point of wearing two sets of outerwear?

 

It's like wearing two condoms!

[JayB]

JayB said:

I bought some WB-400 pants from them this fall and will buy from them again in the future. I had to make a couple of changes after I placed my order and they updated the specifications instantaneously - and ultimately I ended up with a pair of very well put-together, custom-fit pants for about $80 less than mass produced competitors about a week after placing my order. Definite

 

Yup - they've got a pretty slick system that plugs your measurements into a computer that generates a custom pattern based on these inputs, which then shoots the data over to a robotic cutting machine, and then they're sewn together by the folks that work there. Perfect fit with all of the mods I wanted for around $150 - at my door in a week with shipping thrown in for free, and no tax on the sale. Not sure why anyone looking for a new softshell would buy it elsewhere if they knew about these folks. Custom made stuff in the mid-100 range versus mass produced stuff in the mid-to-low twos. It was an easy decision for me.

 

Also serious for the WB-400. First softshell fabric that looks like they it can serve as a stand-alone winter pant fabric for use in the PNW IMO.

[Beck]

a second for WB-400 for winter pants for the PNW. bought a set of WB-400 bibs this last year and find them excellent single layer pant. It's less breathable than schoeller's Dryskin because of the laminate.

WB-400 might be a bit heavy for a jacket IMO, but both Mammut and Marmot offer them this season.

The biggest agvantage of WB-400 is it's extreme strechiness compared to the powershields, the Gore Eiger or Gore Trango softshell fabrics.... these are used in the Marmot sharp point and Mountain Hardwear alchemy jackets respectively.

 

WB400 is pretty respectable winterworthy pant material IMO.

[bunglehead]

Thanks Jay B! I need an outer shell type thingy for snowshoeing, x-country etc. Their stuff looks awesome.

I'm gonna get the Cloud Cap jacket.

 

[gearup5000]

For my applications i.e. three season use I like

malden mills`powershield

 

as for dirt etc. I have this patagonia top, like the pneumatic but just nylon I wear on top

 

It keeps dirt off, is a first layer for water defense, AND, it has a very good hood.

 

It weighs like an ounce, if that. Just a basic anorak but with functional hood...wish I could score a pneumatic pullover, those were great (gore activent)

 

[Alpine_Tom]

Beck said:

you've washed a soft shell a half dozen times?

 

what are you, a dirtaphobe?

 

and what softshells do you mean? there's plenty. everything from a loden wool to high tech, really water resistant stuff. powershield is a softshell, and it has a lot of different face fabrics offered in different clothing lines, some which repel rain/snow better than others.

 

even with a goretex shell, these eventually lose their DWR, begin to work a lot less effectively unless it the DWR is renewed.

 

good luck, and don't wash your shells so much, weather it is gore, encapsil, powershield or dynamic extreme. Retreat when DWR is gone.

I have assumed for years that dirt, or anyhow, the bacteria associated with sweat, will cause the fabric to break down, so that frequent washing will help the garment to last longer. I'm sure I must have heard that someplace. Maybe junior high gym class?

[marylou]

No, you're right. It's good to keep things clean, your clothes, your rope, etc, because dirt's abrasive, and it wears things out. That's why you're not supposed to drag your rope thru the dirt.

[Lambone]

I'm more worried about the washing machine wearing out my scholler stuff.

[cj001f]

marylou said:

No, you're right. It's good to keep things clean, your clothes, your rope, etc, because dirt's abrasive, and it wears things out.

My Guide Pants have are 7 years old now - with well over 500 days on them - including falls on rock, high speed ski wipeouts - hard wear. I wash them about every 6 months, and they are only now dying of old age (some of the stiching's pulling out, accumulated wear). That's more life than I could ever hope from most of my gear.

[Lambone]

cj001f said:

My Guide Pants have are 7 years old now - ....and they are only now dying of old age (some of the stiching's pulling out, accumulated wear). That's more life than I could ever hope from most of my gear.

 

FYI- Patagonia will fix this stitching for free. I had them fix an old pair of Talus pants that had similar use. Drop them off in the seattle store and it's no hassel.

 

[Ursa_Eagle]

I'm guessing the Portland store would also take them if you don't want to drive all the way up to Seattle

[cj001f]

Lambone said:FYI- Patagonia will fix this stitching for free. I had them fix an old pair of Talus pants that had similar use. Drop them off in the seattle store and it's no hassel.

Normally they would - but they were 2nds I got from the outlet - for $60. So I figure I shouldn't take Patagonia for anymore $

 

[Lambone]

I would, Pat has plentty of$