Arab war reporting

[Fairweather]

An interesting perspective. Funny how certain "reporters" always seem to be in the right place at the right time. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few "accidents" involving reporters...like that "Blog" fellow, for instance.....

 

Rumsfeld: Arab TV Stations Had Notice of Attacks

Tuesday, November 25, 2003

 

WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld (search) and his top military adviser said Tuesday they have evidence the Arab television news organizations Al-Jazeera (search) and Al-Arabiya (search) cooperated with Iraqi insurgents to witness and videotape attacks on American troops.

 

Rumsfeld said the effort fit a pattern of psychological warfare used by remnants of the Baathist government, who want to create the impression that no amount of U.S. firepower can end the insurgency.

 

"They've called Al-Jazeera to come and watch them do it [attack American troops], and Al-Arabiya," he told a Pentagon news conference. "'Come and see us, watch us; here is what we're going to do.'"

 

Pressed for details, Rumsfeld and Gen. Richard Myers (search), chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, both indicated that U.S. forces in Iraq had collected more than just circumstantial evidence that one or both of the Arab news organizations might have cooperated with the attackers.

 

"Yes, I've seen scraps of information over a sustained period of time," Rumsfeld said. "I'm not in a position to make a final judgment on it," but it needs to be examined in an "orderly way," he added.

 

Neither Rumsfeld nor Myers provided details of any evidence.

 

"I opined accurately that from time to time each of those stations have found themselves in very close proximity to things that were happening against coalition forces -- before the event happened and during the event," Rumsfeld said.

 

On a related subject, Rumsfeld cited a long list of statistics on the results of recent U.S. efforts to defeat the insurgency -- including a rare reference to numbers of opposition fighters killed.

 

He said that last week alone, U.S.-led forces conducted nearly 12,000 patrols and more than 230 raids.

 

"They captured some 1,200 enemy forces and killed 40 to 50 enemy fighters and wounded some 25 to 30," Rumsfeld said. "That's a one-week snapshot, but it provides a sense of the determined offensive pressure which the coalition is applying against the enemy."

 

The Pentagon has generally refused to provide numbers of opposition forces killed.

 

The question about Al-Arabiya and Al-Jazeera arose when Rumsfeld was asked about a videotape that surfaced in Baghdad showing a man firing a surface-to-air missile at a DHL cargo plane. The tape appeared to record an insurgent operation Saturday in which a missile struck the wing of the cargo plane, forcing the aircraft to make an emergency landing at Baghdad's airport. It was the first time insurgents struck a civilian plane in Iraq.

 

Rumsfeld said he had been told of the videotape but did not know enough about it to comment, beyond saying, "It doesn't take a genius to fire off a shoulder-fired missile at an airplane."

 

On Monday, the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council in Baghdad raided the offices of Al-Arabiya television, banned its broadcasts from Iraq and threatened to imprison its journalists. Media groups said the action called into question the future of a free press in the country.

 

Al-Arabiya said it would not fight the ban and would report on Iraq from its headquarters in Dubai.

 

Asked about the ban, Rumsfeld said he had no opinion because he had not seen the details.

 

Al-Arabiya has clashed with authorities before for its coverage of Iraq. In July, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz said Al-Arabiya and Al-Jazeera incited violence against American forces with slanted reports.

 

In September, the Governing Council temporarily banned both news organizations from entering government buildings and news conferences, accusing them of being aware of attacks on American troops before they occurred.

 

And last week, Rumsfeld called the two stations "violently anti-coalition" as he announced the planned launch of a U.S.-run satellite channel to compete with the popular news stations.

[scrambler]

Caroline Sinz was in the Palestine hotel when it was bombed by the American troops. A shell ripped into her floor two rooms over. She was on the phone about to file a report and witnessed the mayhem firsthand.

 

"I let the phone drop in the waste basket and I ran in the hallway to see what happened. I entered the room and I saw the Spanish cameraman that had been on the balcony filming like us. He was lying on the floor with his leg blown off. We tried to evacuate him to the hospital but it was total panic because the elevators didn't work anymore. We had to come down 14 floors and nobody was there."

 

The FR3 footage clearly showed how the American tank aimed and fired at the Palestine Hotel.

 

Incredibly her cameraman filmed the attack itself and was able to document that the shot came from an American tank. When she showed other journalists the videotape, they were shocked.

 

"I was so surprised because in Baghdad we thought we were in danger from the Iraqis. And it was a shock that the Americans shot against journalists, against freedom of the press. And I think they wanted to do it like that. They wanted to shoot against the press to say, we are in Baghdad now and everything is possible so be careful."

 

The American military claimed that they fired on the Palestine because there were snipers on the roof. And although Sinz's cameraman saw a few Iraqi with guns in the hotel, she claims that she never heard shots fired in the hotel. On that morning as she was about to file her report, all was quiet.

 

CBC News: Deadline Iraq - Uncensored Stories of the War

 

BTW, that 'blog' fellow is on assignment with MSNBC but his blog is non-affliated. It's actually a good account of what he's sees sometimes. It doesn't seem biased to me. He doesn't try to play the sympathy card for the locals and he doesn't beat the drum for the military either. For the record, he wasn't the one who provided that photo of the one-finger salute.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Scrambler your mind is so twisted and you are stupid if you believe all of that story in every minute details. Especially the part where the reporter is claiming the tanks fired upon the media wanting to harm them instead of some other distraction or combatant...

 

You people are pathetic piles of shit that believe that too. Most would fucking cower in the face of battle and piss their pants. All this fucking armchair battlefield fact finding behind the safety of a computer is really just fucking the show of cowardice and even more proof that you don't know jack shit.

[scrambler]

Cpt, go fuck yourself, shithead. You're low level of reactionary thinking shows you to be the cretin you are.

[Cpt.Caveman]

scrambler said:

Cpt, go fuck yourself, shithead. You're low level of reactionary thinking shows you to be the cretin you are.

 

Is that your argument? You obviously dont know anything as I suggested was possible.

 

A cretin. THanks. Are you the cretin that believes everything you are told. Everything written is true.

 

I served. I know what happens on the battlefield. I have seen the meat carnage of members of my platoon were evacuated and injured.

 

Why dont you write that message to the fallen soldiers families if you believe in it.

 

You sound like a reporter trying to describe a climbing accident yet infinity times worse since you were not even there.

[scrambler]

Dude, you jumped on my shit for just posting a fuckin' story in response to Fairweather wondering if anything was going to happen to the journalists. It didn't have anything to do with soldiers dying or getting injured. And, where do you get the idea that everything that's written is true? Seems you formed quick conclusions and carried them further than necessary. You have some anger management issues.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Did you bother to read my comments? Probably not very carefully. I stated several times using words like if and examples of what I called a pile of shit. If you took offense to it then my assumption and second response was probably accurate and worthy.

 

In any case you seem ready to defend the story by action.

 

Seek reading comprehension courses. You also fail to find the cynical part of my everything written is true remark.

 

Another note- war has a lot to do with soldiers defending their lives and eliminating others. Get a grip on yourself. You appear to be foaming at the mouth.

[j_b]

so caveman, why did the tank fire at the hotel?

[Cpt.Caveman]

I never said I had the answer. But I am suggesting the assumption he might leading to could possibly be riddled with missing facts.

 

Possibility number one - they were shot at by and enemy combatant in the vicinity or in the hotel.

 

Have you ever looked through the sites of an APC or tank? It's pretty easy to see things close up and identify items such as shoulder fired missiles, rifles and such..

[j_b]

from the evidence available we can pretty much rule out that enemy combatants were shooting from the hotel. i remember reading as well that no sound of shooting was on the tape prior to the tank firing. i am not implying that the tank fired at reporters on purpose but it is obviously how the reporters on the scene felt (for whatever reason). myself, i think it's probably a mistake similar to other mistakes that happen daily in iraq today.

[scrambler]

Maybe you didn't intend to offend me off the bat, in which case, I've overreacted. You definitely didn't miss a beat by replying with vitriol.

 

No, on rereading the post there's enough there in your writing to take offense. Let's face it. You're not exactly Hemingway. Maybe you need a writing course.

 

BTW, you seem to confuse someone's personal identity with beliefs that are floating around. If I post a story about how stupid George Bush is, that doesn't actually mean I personally believe it. A person who's fluent in rhetoric (not saying I am), can take any idea even if he's diametrically opposed to it and present it in rational terms as if he actually identified with it.

 

Cpt, I don't believe you are stupid or cowardly but I do think that you are assuming too much in what others believe. This is just a game to me. A person would have to be delusional to think otherwise.

[willstrickland]

I find it to be NON-news. Yeah, fuckin-a right Al Jazeera is gonna go film it if they're tipped...just like Fox,CNN,MSNBC, and all the rest had imbedded journalists. The report spins it so as to imply that those media outlets PARTICIPATED or AIDED in the attacks, I'd like to see the evidence. Perhaps they did, but again..show me the evidence.

 

OTOH, as Caveman said, nobody knows what really happened at that hotel except the people on the battlefield. I'd feel reasonably confident that snipers had been on that roof at some point. I also feel reasonably certain that if I'm the gunner on that tank looking for snipers, and some dumbfuck cameraman is pointing a camera at me from 1000m, he's going to look like he's holding an RPG aimed at my tank....and he's going to fucking die. Sorry mate, but that's the chance you took when you stuck around to report on a WAR. To imply that the US military on the ground targeted the media is ludicrous.

[Cpt.Caveman]

I could agree with that. I dont sit at home and tune into cnn every 30 minutes and scan for new argument material. I dont have cable or a tv antenna. I just have a tv to watch movies from my dvd player.

 

I am merely speaking based on my own knowledge and experiences.

 

I highly doubt that they would intentionally target civilians in the situation\scenario. Especially reporters.

[Cpt.Caveman]

scrambler just shut up. You overreacted and I fucking stomped you into stupidity.

 

Next.

[scrambler]

Hardly.

 

 

Translation: No, you didn't.

 

[j_b]

how could reporters feel they were targeted ?

[Scott_J]

scrambler said:

Cpt, go fuck yourself, shithead. You're low level of reactionary thinking shows you to be the cretin you are.

I'll tell ya what you fucking dick head. If you had one gram the guts, determination, personal integrity and intelligence that the Cap. Caveman has you might be a measure of a man. But I can see that you are nothing but a whining looser that belongs in the swirling decomposing shit pile of society where you apparently crawled out of. Go back there and do everyone a favor…buy some donut holes and ...

Edited November 26, 2003 by sisu_suomi

[catbirdseat]

I'm going to ignore everything that came after the original post and comment on that. The question is what should we do about Al-Jazeera? If their coverage of the war is aiding the enemy, then we have a duty to shut them down. If this were peacetime then I would be all for freedom of the press, but as long as our boys are dying, we have to do whatever we can to protect them. If that means shutting down Al-Jazeera, then so be it. The other option is forcing them to comply with an agreement on how they cover news in Iraq.

[RobBob]

Two facts I know:

 

1) War is Hell. Caveman noted that many here would piss their pants in the face of real battle...in truth many actually shit their pants when first exposed. Bottom line is that chaos and confusion have always been part of it. Chaos and confusion have historically led to 'friendly' casualties. Stonewall Jackson was killed by his own men.

 

2) There is a never-ending stream of journalists who like lemmings are willing to throw themselves into high-risk circumstances, all for the chance at career glory. As sisu says "fuck with the bull, get the horn." I'll save my tears for the soldiers over there, not journalists.

[allthumbs]

catbirdseat said:

I'm going to ignore everything that came after the original post and comment on that. The question is what should we do about Al-Jazeera? If their coverage of the war is aiding the enemy, then we have a duty to shut them down. If this were peacetime then I would be all for freedom of the press, but as long as our boys are dying, we have to do whatever we can to protect them. If that means shutting down Al-Jazeera, then so be it. The other option is forcing them to comply with an agreement on how they cover news in Iraq.

For once, I agree 100% with Cattbird.

[catbirdseat]

Certainly, an endorsement of dubious value.

[Scott_J]

trask said:

catbirdseat said:

I'm going to ignore everything that came after the original post and comment on that. The question is what should we do about Al-Jazeera? If their coverage of the war is aiding the enemy, then we have a duty to shut them down. If this were peacetime then I would be all for freedom of the press, but as long as our boys are dying, we have to do whatever we can to protect them. If that means shutting down Al-Jazeera, then so be it. The other option is forcing them to comply with an agreement on how they cover news in Iraq.

For once, I agree 100% with Cattbird.

 

Catbirdseat said, "Certainly, an endorsement of dubious value."

Trask and Catbirdseat agree! WOW, funny thing I agree with this also. Maybe Catbirdseat is going over to the dark side.

[Jim]

Seems like the incident was an unfortunate mistake by the tank crew. But one that could have been avoided. But fog of war and all that....

 

The military has switched their story several times on this. First they were fired upon from the lobby of the hotel - a physical impossibility. Then they said they were fired upon from the roof - none of the journalists watching the battle from their rooms heard any shots. Then the military said there were people with binoculars at the hotel - well duh, about 100 of them.

 

The military report is of course classified. The unit commander was overheard shouting "Who hit the Palestine?". Since tank crews have the flexibility to act relatively independently it was likely a mistake by the crew, not intentional. But it's was (and is) a dangerous place.

 

Certainly the military's usual lack of candor doesn't help.

[scott_harpell]

who cares about these stupid journalists? they get in the way they get shot. you think hemmingway woulda bitched like that if he took schrapnel? hell no! he'da pulled out his flask and got down to business!

[j_b]

are you for real?

 

31 journalists killed since jan 1, 2003