RobBob Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 or is it just my relatives? Goddamn if every one of them doesn't seem to make out on extended childcare leaves, extra retirement money, unbelieveable numbers of vacation days, and a general milk-the-system attitude. Is this standard? Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 RobBob said: or is it just my relatives? Goddamn if every one of them doesn't seem to make out on extended childcare leaves, extra retirement money, unbelieveable numbers of vacation days, and a general milk-the-system attitude. Is this standard? Fuckin' A, man, you make it sound like a bad thing! People work 'cause they have to, not because it's the end-all be-all of human existence! People oughta be damn proud of doing anything and everything they can to break out of the work mold and do some fuckin' living before they're shuffling around the house with a walker, lamenting the high cost of Metamucil and Viagra. Sheeeit. Quote
Jim Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 RobBob said: or is it just my relatives? Goddamn if every one of them doesn't seem to make out on extended childcare leaves, extra retirement money, unbelieveable numbers of vacation days, and a general milk-the-system attitude. Is this standard? Except in the US and Japan. Quote
RobBob Posted October 14, 2003 Author Posted October 14, 2003 DFA, you and Jim go have your socialist rally somewhere else. Quote
bunglehead Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 Jim said: RobBob said: or is it just my relatives? Goddamn if every one of them doesn't seem to make out on extended childcare leaves, extra retirement money, unbelieveable numbers of vacation days, and a general milk-the-system attitude. Is this standard? Except in the US and Japan. And Korea. Quote
Jim Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 RobBob said: DFA, you and Jim go have your socialist rally somewhere else. In that vein then the rest of the world is socialist? I think we should bomb them for taking too much vacation. Interesting that the US lags behind in productivity/hr worked compared to these countries. We just work more. Quote
Alex Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 RobBob said: or is it just my relatives? Goddamn if every one of them doesn't seem to make out on extended childcare leaves, extra retirement money, unbelieveable numbers of vacation days, and a general milk-the-system attitude. Is this standard? Is it that you are just jealous? Me relatives get 6 weeks paid vaca a year in Austria. I don't mind admitting I would like some of that..! Quote
minx Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 i met a nice swiss couple at l'worth a couple of weeks ago. i was chatting w/the gentleman at the belay. he asked if i were on holiday. i told him that i had taken the day off to go climbing. he was surprised and remarked how few americans he had met that actually took vacation. he did not say that in a positive way. vacation is good. i'll take as much as i can get! Quote
Dru Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 bennies? isnt that shit like 70's downers or something? im not up on my "retro drugs not abused anymore cause they aren't trendy" info. Quote
Formaldehead Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 Dru said: bennies? isnt that shit like 70's downers or something? im not up on my "retro drugs not abused anymore cause they aren't trendy" info. I'm looking forward to PCP coming back into vogue. Quote
RobBob Posted October 14, 2003 Author Posted October 14, 2003 my question wasn't about the fact that they get more benes (in return for the extra taxes they pay). Rather it was about this business of totting up and squeezing out every hour and every penny they can. Whatever happened to the concept of giving more than you get? Quote
JayB Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 Study of Euro vs US Economic Performance Interesting reading. Quote
Jim Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 RobBob said: my question wasn't about the fact that they get more benes (in return for the extra taxes they pay). Rather it was about this business of totting up and squeezing out every hour and every penny they can. Whatever happened to the concept of giving more than you get? They likely do. They have more time to give to their families, friends, and communities, and to voulenteer at their kid's school or after-school programs. Beats keeping the nose to the grindstone. No one on their deathbed ever said they wished they spent more time at the office (Twain?). And interesting article JayB. What's missing is why our per captia GDP is higher than the EU - we work many more hours per captia. The EU productivity per hour is generally higher than the US. Quote
RobBob Posted October 14, 2003 Author Posted October 14, 2003 The EU productivity per hour is generally higher than the US. that's misleading due to labor forcer and what the labor's about Quote
Jim Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 RobBob said: The EU productivity per hour is generally higher than the US. that's misleading due to labor forcer and what the labor's about Huh?? Quote
RobBob Posted October 14, 2003 Author Posted October 14, 2003 okay, we're still not talking about my question, which was really an attitudinal one (mostly in jest obviously). Growing up, I always got the Horatio Alger stories from my old man. Be willing to work hard and use your brain, and you can end up on top regardless of the economy and what others do. But what I'm talking about is quite the opposite. Their kids are learning: Get a relatively easy job, read all the fine print about retirement and other benes, then start milking those money tits for all their worth. Seems like the wrong way to assure your kids that they'll get ahead. Seems to me they'll end up expecting more than they put in. Of course, that's exactly what retirees expect from our US social security system...never mind. Quote
Jim Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 It may be a matter of perspective. I think they are just learning that work is not the end all, which it is for a lot of folks in the US. As a society maybe they have just agreed that the emphasis should not be so high on working and material gain. My relatives in the EU and Australia work hard - but they have better benefits and more time off. Seems like a great family-friendly policy to me. They're not milking the system. That is the system their society agrees on. Quote
JayB Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 Jim said: And interesting article JayB. What's missing is why our per captia GDP is higher than the EU - we work many more hours per captia. The EU productivity per hour is generally higher than the US. We also make better use of our available workers. Lower unemployment, longer working lives. I'm all for the Euro approach to work, but it does come at a cost, and in my view it will not be sustainable in the face of intensifying global competition. The structural unemployment level is about 10% in Europe, and will only trend higher if they fail to make meaningful reforms in the very near future. That will result in a significant percentage of the workforce taking involuntary, multi-year vacations on benefits that are significantly less generous than those enjoyed today. Quote
Jim Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 Some good points JayB but so far it's worked for them and the rest is speculation. I do think that the drop in population rate may have some effect that could cause some restructuring. While the EU may have an overall higher unemployment rate the US has a staggering level of poverty compared to the EU. At least the unemployed in the EU have some medical coverage. I guess that's a variation on the approaches. Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 RobBob, it all comes down to how you define "getting ahead". If your idea of quality of life is giving everything you've got to your employer and being damn happy to get anything they give you in return, while never using a sick day unless you're sick, and never using your vacation days because they need you at the office, then yeah, taking your time off for all it's worth is a lousy way to "get ahead". If you're more into living your life and doing more than just working, then you're hitting the jackpot by taking full advantage of every non-working opportunity to live, be it extra dough, extra leave, or whatever. The twain are unlikely to meet, though. One camp is gonna say the other is a bunch of lazy sods with no work ethic and no right to enjoy their whored benes, the other is going to be aghast at such a bunch of dupes leashed to their desks with their neckties and unwilling to put life before company. Quote
E-rock Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 Wow all this talk of PRODUCTIVITY has me feeling so SUPERIOR. Especially since the world-wide-web makes us all so much more PRODUCTIVE than those SOCIALIST FREAKS in the rest of the world. I think I'm gonna go build a log cabin or something. Quote
Jim Posted October 14, 2003 Posted October 14, 2003 Everyone call in sick tomorrow and go climb!!! Quote
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