Cordellette size?

[rr666]

What do all you trad climbers out there use for your cordellettes? (i am sure that is spelled wrong!) Last time I bought 8mm cord and was unhappy at how fat it was. I think i meant to get 6, but I must have been drunk that day... Anybody use 5mm? 4mm? How small is too small for some serious trad and aid climbing?

Thanks,

[DPS]

Having gone from using 21 ft of 5.5 mm tech cord to a Web-o-lette, I can fully recommend the Web-o-lette. Much less bulky than the cord and plenty strong. Only drawback is you can't cut it up for rappel anchors.

[todd]

im with daniel - use a web-o-lette, and get the longest one available because youll often need the extra length and then some - and if you dont, you can always just tie your knot closer to take in the slack. however, i bring a 7mm cordelette on more adventurous routes, because they can be cut up and used on the descent as well, or in the unlucky event that something happens and you have to bail.

[todd]

and too busy spouting advice, i forgot to answer the actual question. i use 20-24 feet of cord, and i think 4mm is way too skimpy - i like to use 6mm or 7mm - i personally wouldnt go under 6mm.

[Dru]

i got one of those 5.5 spectra cord ones, so to you Chris Harmston disciple types.

can anybody show me ANY EXAMPLES from the accident literature of a Spectra codelette failing in real world situations, where the purported extra strength of 7mm cord would have made a difference?

that said i mostly use a daisy instad of a cordelette to clip to anchors anyways. you can all cross me off your potential partner list right now

[erik]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dru:

you can all cross me off your potential partner list right now

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i did after i met you!!!!

[Bronco]

I noticed they left out the super long ass spectra slings that I tend to use most often for a nice self equalizing anchor. conspiracy?

[JayB]

I can't recall seeing any reports of a cordalette of any type failing under any circumstances. Or of any anchor-specific material failing in a real world scenario. I suspect that even with a cord that tests at a considerably lower strength than 7mm there's still a huge margin for error an any cordalette anchor that's reasonably well constructed. Anyone else ever heard of accidents of this type? Most incidents of total anchor failure that I've read about have involved the protection pulling rather than the anchor material snapping.

Anyhow - I was using 7mm nylon before ever coming across the article because it was cheaper and seemed to do the job, but was thinking of paying the extra money for the additional strength that the techy cords supposedly offered prior to reading the article. After reading through it, my thought was - why pay more for something that's not as strong or durable? If I had already purchased the cord though, I'd probably keep using it until I needed to replace it.

[erik]

i use webboltte mostly, but they were free....

7mm i think is ideal- stength vs weight issues and what not.....

though i now have a vectron 5.5 cordeltte that is soooooooooo strong....

my friend even has a 200ft section of it that we use to double rope rappell

the downside of vectron like $2/ft

[rr666]

Just curious, but did your friend pay $400 for a 200 ft piece of cord??

[erik]

nope

[haireball]

you spelled it right - when French-trained guides introduced this item to AMGA Yanks back in the early eighties, they specified five meters of 7mm cord. I dropped to 6mm, but still hold to the 5 meter length. Chelan County Mountain Rescue uses 8mm, but they are tying prussiks on fat ropes (11mm+). I usually climb on twins, so I prefer smaller diameter cordellettes. I haven't gone smaller than 6mm because I want the loop strength to be adequate for runner/anchor use.

[JayB]

Anyone interested in the relative strength of cordalette materials should take a look at this report put together by Chris Harmston of BD. Essentially, they found that despite posessing greater tensile strength, the high-tech cords failed at dramatically lower loads than 7mm nylon when knotted, and rapidly lost strength after being flexed repeatedly. Most folks I know who have read the report have ditched their high tech cords and gone back to 7mm nylon. Read it and judge for yourself.

http://www.amga.com/info/Comparative%20Tes%C9rength%20Cord.pdf

[johnny]

Call me stupid but "webolette"? What is it? It sounds like a Ronco gadget.....But wait, there's more. If you call now we will include the amazing webolette junior. Just like it's big brother, it packs a big punch in a super small package.....

It rolls down stairs, alone or in pairs.It rolls over you neighbors dog.It's great for a snack,it fits on your back, It's.......c'mon everyone, you know the words!!!!

[Dru]

The web-0-letteThe web-0-letteWhat does it do?It comes back to you!

The only reason i went with spectra over 7mm is cuz it is about as strong but way lighter and less bulky. It was worth paying 4x as much for that.

[Winter]

JayB -

I know of an accident on Mt. Washington in the Oregon Cascades where a spectra sling used in an anchor broke. The lead climber pulled three or four pieces of gear and popped the sling when it shock loaded. I found the sling still attached to a couple of manky pins ... but it looked as though it might have been shredded over a corner as opposed to a straight pull. It also looked like it had been set up in a death triangle.

[ 02-28-2002: Message edited by: Winter ]

[imorris]

If that was the most recent accident on Washington, Accidents in NA Mtning confirms the american triangle was used in that belay.

[Beck]

...I think 4mm cord wouldn't have enough safety margin to be using in an anchor setup-what's it rated breaking strength, 600 lbs- 3kn, something like that? and a knot reduces cord strength by like 50%- Kurt H., how's a 6mm cord worked for you? Notice a diff from 7mm weight/durability wise?

[Winter]

quote:

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Originally posted by imorris:

If that was the most recent accident on Washington, Accidents in NA Mtning confirms the american triangle was used in that belay.

---

Yep, that was the one.

[Rodchester]

I have always just used a 48 in equalized with the old loop in it. If I need to, I simply back it up with a 24 to another piece. I also regulaly tie in using the rope with a hitch.

I am curious about the web-olette thing. I have seen them and get the idea. But who makes them and who carries them? Does Jim's shop carry them? REI? FF? Second Ascent? How long are they, usually anway? Is longer better? (Seems like more room to do more with)? How heavy?

Thanks in advance....

[jon]

I just bought a Metolius Web-o-lette, was $25 at Marmot. Haven't used it yet. 10' long 3/4" weight 4.8 oz

[todd]

rodchester,

yeah, longer is definitely better. as said before, you can always tie off any excess slack. i dont really know any weight differences, and theyre probably negligible - however i would think that a webolette is lighter, and is definitely more clean and probably stronger. my favorite thing about it is that there is no knot, which makes setting up and adjusting significantly easier - give one a shot, youll probably like it. i picked mine up at the shop in squamish - on sight makes them. but im sure youll have no problem finding one in seattle. enjoy!

[snowman]

Cascade Crags in Everett has webolettes, You can also make your own with 20 to 24 feet of 6mm cord. The advantage of tying your own is you can untie it to give you 20 feet of cord.

[big_red_dog]

To equalize an anchor you can also use the rope in the same fashion as a web o let, as in Long's anchors book. This also commits the second to the next lead, very usefull if your gripped.

[Bug]

Never willingly give up the lead.