Thoughts on the "Fast and Light" ethic from rc.com

[mattp]

Tex-

You misunderstand me. I think it is cool what folks are doing these days. Fast and light is a great way to go. I think the obsession with it, however, and the promotion of fast and light as the ideal to which every young climber should aspire to, is misguided.

 

If you want to go do big climbs without taking a first aid kit or bivouac gear, that is great. If you suggest that somebody who doesn't know what they are doing should try to do the same or they are not as good as you (I don't know whether you have done this or not), I think you are egotistical and irresponsible.

 

Who benefits from the fact that the cover of climbing magazine screams "fast and light" and that everybody is more interested in talking about how fast they climbed Mount Stuart, car to car, than they are in talking about which might be the most fun variation on the route? Those who are fit and fast and who take personal satisfaction in being so don't need to have their great accomplishments glorified in the magazines or on this website. I am vastly oversimplifying, and one might even say I am being needlessly offesive, but I think the big momentum for all of this "fast and light" discussion comes from climbers who seek recognition or sponsorship, and vendors who want to sell gear and gu.

[texplorer]

I agree with your points Matt. The "fast and light" style should only be taken on by those experienced and fully aware of that which they are undertaking. Adventure is different for everyone. I suppose that my idea of what is an adventure has even changed over time as I have improved my skills and knowledge.

 

I still like to hear how fast people can do things even if they are self-promoting snobs. My favorite climbers are the ones that can do it all but don't spray to the world about it but its fun to read about the leo holdings of the world too.

 

hasta-

[Bug]

"Be prepared" is the Boy scout motto. Troop 9 in Missoula MT used to go on 50 mile hikes through the Bob or the Mission Mts every summer. We normally had 50 lb packs the first few days for 7 days out and no climbing gear. Some of the kids still got cold. They weren't prepared because they had a lot of worthless shit in their packs. The same can be true of today's high tech climbers. Having a leaning toward fast and light inspires one to think a little more carefully about what is really needed. Being lighter without shorting yourself is always a good thing. It does take experience to "know" what you will need with a high degree of accuracy. But the more thought you put into it, the more likely you will be to leave something heavy and unnessessary at home.

[Cpt.Caveman]

I go SLOW and LIGHT everywhere. I think it's great. I have some experience. I think it's ok if I guage it correctly.

 

I think I know what I can do with what gear. Some people would consider me on the edge and some that know me a cold sleeper with enough gear to do the job.

 

I have not much experience so I must state that twice.

 

For all the naysayers remember that fat people can climb light too. As long as they know when to do it and hopefully not to get rescued.

 

I am not saying I might not get a rescue call one day.

 

It's easy for the masses to criticize and ridicule some people about rescues. But some deserve it too. If I felt unerequipped and or underexperienced and had a rescue I would certainly admit it FIRST thing.

 

I still go SLOW and LIGHT.

 

Hurray for the light pack guys doing the same thing safely.

 

It only takes a brain most of the time.

[Bug]

Your dog looks fast and light.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Bug said:

Your dog looks fast and light.

 

He is. And a friendly fast light. Mark Twight would beg to keep up with him on a dirt trail. Maybe he should write the fast and light "ethics" book next. A response to Mark Twight's book.

[Beck]

Didn't Susan Butcher and a beau take a dogsled team up top of Denali back in eighties?

[marylou]

Now I'm no alpinist, just a regular girl, but I've been lightening and lightening for the last few years, and I've learned a couple of things:

 

Taking a lighter sleeping bag rated *right* at the temps you might encounter will lead you to freeze your butt off. I had a few shivery cold nights this year by trying to save a little weight on my choice of bag. Maybe it's because we women don't stay as warm as men, I don't know, but I'm starting to rethink that part of the system. Last night I slept under the stars in a 10 degree bag and the weight savings versus a tent was a good thing. It was a synthetic bag and only for one night so it was a good way to try that out. Wasn't half as bad as I expected, and it was a little chilly last night.

 

Hats and gloves are way lighter than coats. I think a Primaloft vest might also be a good addition.

 

Food always weighs too much. I wish food could both taste good and be light.

 

A water filter weighs the same as a half liter of water. Even if you never get sick from Giardia, if you carry it, you spread it. Same with dogs, though if you bring them in the backcountry they are going to get into the water no matter what.

 

Softshell stuff makes a reasonable sub for rain gear if you don't expect a lot. They make a lot of stuff out of softshell fabrics these days other than coats.

[Sphinx]

What's your point, Allison? An alpinist has different needs than a camper. For example, a camper expects to be warm and comfy at night. An climber on a hard route wants it to be survivable. Iodine pills weigh about as much as a mouthful of water. Saves you a pound. Sleep in ALL your clothes for god's sake, you'll be warmer. Haven't we all discussed this before?

 

BTW marylou, do you do any climbing at all?

[Billygoat]

Hey, it just is what it is

 

What are you in a hurry for unless you are a egocentric peak bagger like Dan -?!

[Paul_detrick]

I try to use everything I take, I go lite now because I know what I need to get me thru, that takes lots of trips of too much shit, and getting rid of what I did not use. But that may not be lite to you, were all differnt.

[Dru]

fat is aid

 

a skinny person has to carry more gear to stay warm

 

[marylou]

Sphinx, what if it's in a place that is not a real campground? Does it count then? Sometimes I go places where they don't have an actual Campground Host....but it's vewwy skeewwy, and you have to go poop in the woods.

 

Sleeping in ALL of your clothes is not better than sleeping in a CLEAN single layer of clothing. Doy.

 

PPS. Iodine doesn't do the trick! Do your damn homework!

Edited September 15, 2003 by marylou

[Sphinx]

marylou said:

Sphinx, what if it's in a place that is not a real campground? Does it count then? Sometimes I go places where they don't have an actual Campground Host....but it's vewwy skeewwy, and you have to go poop in the woods.

 

PS. Iodine doesn't do the trick!

Have fun pooping. I'll be climbing, if you need me.

 

This is cascadeclimbers.com, not cascadepoopers.com.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Dru said:

fat is aid

 

a skinny person has to carry more gear to stay warm

 

 

Skinny fucks are aid they whine about the cold and need more food then it's been gone for a day or 3.

 

 

[salbrecher]

I'm about as skinny as they come and have no problem staying warm compared to my non skinny partners. I don't carry any more food on shorter trips and just eat higher fat food of the same weight on longer trips. If anything I find that if i eat enought food I'm even warmer than my non lanky partners because my metabolism's faster and that keeps me warmer.

[babnik]

Billygoat said:

Hey, it just is what it is

 

What are you in a hurry for unless you are a egocentric peak bagger like Dan -?!

 

first: challenge.

 

second: most have 9-5 ers and have to get their asses in gear to do 3 day climbs in 1.5 days.

[Billygoat]

So, would you say that they are more focused on the destination rather than the journey? Sounds like a recipe for a rescue. I leave my cellphone and watch at home. I'm self employed, which sucks at times but has its obvious benefits. So far I've found that in the Northwest it's good to go with the weather. Limiting ones exposure to objective hazards aside, I guess that I am past the age (or ability) where I need to prove anything or make any money from my outdoor pursuits thereby left with purely personal reasons for being out there.

 

Please feel free to flame me unmercifully if I get excited and post some lame chestbeater of a TR anytime in the near future.

 

[Billygoat]

Bill_Simpkins said:

I have a climbing partner that is 65 years old. On every climb we've done, he wears an old pair of leather hiking boots, uses a small Jansport book bag, wraps his crampons in an old vest starpped to the top, carries his home-made ice axe in his hand, brings nylon wind/rain wear, and carries two small water bottles that he fills up in creeks and with snow. He usually eats raisins and apples. He's bagged countless cool peaks and doesn't talk about it unless you bring it up. He moves like the wind across the sketchiest terrain. He has a really good sense of what he is comfortable with and what he can do. turn around when you don't feel good.

These arn't things that are taught in books, nor could I explain them to anyone. It's called.........get this people............experience.

 

--addition: I think too many people these days are getting wrapped up in gear before they ever get out there and be human and use the tools that took millions of years of research and development. You arms, your legs, your heart, your brain, and your instinct. I think people should learn to use those first before they go out and buy any gear.

 

 

What he said.

[Bug]

Billygoat said:

Hey, it just is what it is

 

What are you in a hurry for unless you are a egocentric peak bagger like Dan -?!

Wow. I thought you were Dan's new avatar. Now I have rethink all your posts.