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Jens

Ex. 38 and Index threatened

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okcjohn said:

Is there a good source to figure out what permits are required for where?

 

Good question...

 

Let's see. I have a stupid forest pass for most trailheads and a stupid fish pass for Vantage (huh?) - does that get me Tieton as well? Then there is a stupid pass for the Mt. Washington trail parking lot up by Exit 38. Rainier Nat'l Park requires an entry fee. Adams has a summit fee. The Enchantments have a stupid camping fee on top of the stupid forest pass. Even the Marymoore rock has as stupid $1 parking fee. And I bet there is a ton more that I don't know about.

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When the govt employees enforce these fees, do they carry a notebook? Do they write down license numbers? This is a very dark view of the situation, but does anyone on this board know what info is collected, where it's stored and how it's used? mad.gif

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I wish to add something to my initial post:

 

It is not six different types of fees or permits that I was supposed to have paid but fourteen (14)! Over a 10 year period we are talking 10-12 thousand dollars!

 

I listed them all under the next thread about fees.

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Jens said:

I wish to add something to my initial post:

 

It is not six different types of fees or permits that I was supposed to have paid but fourteen (14)! Over a 10 year period we are talking 10-12 thousand dollars!

 

I listed them all under the next thread about fees.

 

OK Jens I'll bite show me the calculation showing at least $1,000/year. And I think that man made rocks shouldn't count but go ahead and include them. You still haven't explained the nature of the threat to either 38 or Index.

 

PP bigdrink.gif

Edited by Peter_Puget

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Peter, you are correct... the areas are not really threatened to anyone willing to pay the possibly upcoming $35 per dollar a year fee. I hyped up the post title a little to get more views.

 

Also my math was a little fuzzy but here is some food for thought: A marymoor season parking permit is $50 bucks. A workday parking pass to the UW practice rock lot islikely over a $100 just for one student quarter. You got me for exxataing but not by much. If one were to buy all 16 or so, the bill would be very high.

 

 

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Jim is correct that tax burdens can be calculated in various ways. I would add that one should be willing to do some research on ones own - you may decide to find Jims figures less menaingful than one would think at first blush. eg the tax burden rank for WA as a % of Y including state, local and Feceral taxation results ion the following rankings:

 

2003 - 12

2002 -5

2001 -5

2000 -6

1999 -5

 

Clearly not the middle of the pack.

 

Link: www.taxfoundation.org

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"Also my math was a little fuzzy but here is some food for thought: A marymoor season parking permit is $50 bucks. A workday parking pass to the UW practice rock lot islikely over a $100 just for one student quarter. You got me for exxataing but not by much. If one were to buy all 16 or so, the bill would be very high."

 

-Does anyone actually buy a parking permit so they can climb at the uw rock? The rock itself is free. Parking permits are expensive because they have a limited amount of parking and a high demand from the students and faculty (for other purposes then the rock I should think). The U does a good job encouraging car pooling (park for free) and offers the U-pass for like 30$ a quarter.

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the user fees situation is getting out of hand and non-motorized users of the outdoors will probably not be able to prevent it.

 

it is in fact getting so ludicrous that i think we should consider playing their own game (the anti-tax folks): we should vote in toll booths on lake washington bridges, and even perhaps all main highways out of town (let's get medieval since it's apparently what they want). i think the latte tax sounds better and better (perhaps next time, the starbucks dude will give dough to the right campaign), probably we should have one on pro-sports tickets, etc .... when everyone starts getting hit left and right, they'll reconsider a reasonable progressive tax.

 

sorry, i do not offer a solution to the fee problem but unless you know lots of people ready to move thier butts on this issue .... we are screwed.

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Well J-B we for once are in complete agreement - your last line is the absolute truth. If we are relatively silent, we are screwed.

 

I do not think that the anti-tax people are responsible for this phenomenon. Their presence has simply accelerated the acknowledgement of the problem. The problem results from the process of government finance. User fees were in play long before Eyman was around.

 

Go to the Parks website and read the financial info there. What was surprising to me was the small amount of money that was actually spent by the Parks department.

 

PP bigdrink.gif

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-Does anyone actually buy a parking permit so they can climb at the uw rock?

 

Haven't needed a permit in 4 years. Only confronted by parking po once and that was during a stadium event.

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Tim Eyman, lower license fees, 601, 602, always voting to give schools more money. All add up to broken budgets for natural resource agencies.

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mtn_mouse said:

Tim Eyman, lower license fees, 601, 602, always voting to give schools more money. All add up to broken budgets for natural resource agencies.

 

We may have voted to give the schools more money (they need it bad), but when it comes time to ante up, the legistlature won't give the schools the money the voters have approved (WA ranks 42nd out of 50 states in education spending). We don't give schools squat in this state.

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Another example of a taxpayer subsidized program is the Washington State ferry system. In reality, how many fairies use the ferry? HCL.gif

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Scourge said:

Another example of a taxpayer subsidized program is the Washington State ferry system. In reality, how many fairies use the ferry? HCL.gif

 

see the price difference in canada for ferries... is is astronomically more expensive there! hellno3d.gif i am glad it is subsidized here cause i would have to save for weeks to go on a bike ride to whidbey! yellaf.gif

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The State taking an interest in the Town Walls is definitely a mixed bag in terms of possible outcomes. I for one would hate to see it over-developed and/or regulated. There are at least two good outcomes possible. Climbers should be pressing for both.

 

The first is toilets near the Lower Wall. The second, restriction of 4WD and motorcycle access to the top of the Upper Wall, is obvious to anyone who has walked along the base of the Upper Wall. Yesterday the usual barrages of beer cans were descending but joining them were some rather large rocks. Several of them measuring in at a couple feet across. Besides creating an eyesore these activities are incredibly dangerous. The most dangerous section of the UW is between Earwax and Dana’s Arch.

 

Be careful if you are walking along the base of the Upper Wall.

 

Darryl

 

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