Ade Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 I was climbing on Saturday at Exit 32 and my partner, who was hung over from a Friday night binge, puked up on my rope. I washed it off and other than the smell etc there doesn't seem to be much discoloration or anything. Does Vomit damage ropes? Should I retire it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinx Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 It's acid. I dunno. But acid is supposed to be bad for ropes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleblebleb Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Dunno about rope, consider retiring partner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 (edited) Ade, check out this thread. Fern posted some useful information from rope manufacturers on what does and what does not damage ropes. Also consult some of the rope-manufacturer websites, which is what I did. Thread Link Edited August 18, 2003 by E-rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucK Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Had he recently ingested any battery acid or cat pee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offwidthclimber Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 chucK said: Had he recently ingested any battery acid or cat pee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Was it Alasdair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Vomit contains hydrochloric acid. The longer you leave it on the rope the more damage it will do. Soap and water will do the trick. If you want, you can add a little baking soda to make sure the acid is neutralized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawgoddess Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 ick. i think if the smell is not all gone; it can't be that clean! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alasdair Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Thinker said: Was it Alasdair? What the hell would make you think that I might be hungover? No it was not me I stopped climbing with Ade after a cold unplanned bivy in which he kept trying to spoon with me and spent the whole night sputtering out comments about his gay lovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Ade said: I was climbing on Saturday at Exit 32 and my partner, who was hung over from a Friday night binge, puked up on my rope. I washed it off and other than the smell etc there doesn't seem to be much discoloration or anything. Does Vomit damage ropes? Should I retire it? YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 My partners both pissed in a huge puddle at the second belay station of Dark Shadows and then ran the rope through it as it splattered all over us. Should I soak them in baking soda and fucking shit all over them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coopah Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Winter said: Should I soak them in baking soda and fucking shit all over them? You should definately do so to your partners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I heard a story once from Fast Eddie (RIP ) about him leading a pitch up a couloir while his partnerr crapped and when he hauled in the rope at the next belay there was frozen shit on it cause his partner had dropped a coil on a coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Winter said: My partners both pissed in a huge puddle at the second belay station of Dark Shadows and then ran the rope through it as it splattered all over us. Should I soak them in baking soda and fucking shit all over them? Aparently urine is actuallty really bad for your ropes. the link that fern posted (referenced above) is probably where I learnt that, but I am too lazy too check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 snoboy said: Winter said: My partners both pissed in a huge puddle at the second belay station of Dark Shadows and then ran the rope through it as it splattered all over us. Should I soak them in baking soda and fucking shit all over them? Aparently urine is actuallty really bad for your ropes. the link that fern posted (referenced above) is probably where I learnt that, but I am too lazy too check. In the respect that it doesn't do much for the smell (and feel- yuck), it is really bad, other than that, I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 catbirdseat said: snoboy said: Winter said: My partners both pissed in a huge puddle at the second belay station of Dark Shadows and then ran the rope through it as it splattered all over us. Should I soak them in baking soda and fucking shit all over them? Aparently urine is actuallty really bad for your ropes. the link that fern posted (referenced above) is probably where I learnt that, but I am too lazy too check. In the respect that it doesn't do much for the smell (and feel- yuck), it is really bad, other than that, I doubt it. Really, I guess you were too lazy too read the link too Here it is in all it's glory: fern said: from Fish website: Re: UIAA rope test results Author: Clyde Soles Email: csoles@rmi.net Date: 1998/10/22 Forums: rec.climbing Haven't seen the report but there isn't much I wasn't aware of Al Black <al@debra.dgbt.doc.ca> wrote: quoting the Alpine Club of Canada for their work on the UIAA safety commission, and the Fall 98 ACC Gazette: > Anyhow the the dirt is: > 1) Gasoline, diesel fuel, camp gas, sea water, coca cola, and strong > vinegar do not damage ropes . Urine dropped the number of falls held in > the standard test drops by 50%. Old news but it doesn't seem like a good idea to soak your rope in gas anyways (what about all the additives?). Acid is the big no-no. > 2) "An American product (Sharpie) specifically sold for marking the middle > of ropes reduces the strength of the rope (only at the point of marking > however and only when this point is loaded over the test edge) by as much > as 50%." Actually Sharpies are not marketed for marking ropes (can you say "liability" ;-) and it even says on the pen "not for cloth." The only pen I know of sold for ropes is Bluewaters and they control the solvent used. > 3) "It appears it is not possible to damage ropes by walking on them with > heavy boots even when the rope lies on sharp edges. Even walking on the > rope with crampons does not weaken the rope." ... Yep, but I still don't like someone walking on *my* lifeline. > 4)... "wet or iced ropes experience a major drop in edge strength (falls > for half rope go from 9 to 3) regardless of whether they are dry treated > or not." There is no official edge test so stuff like this has to be taken with a grain of salt. The bigger question is what happens to impact forces? > 5) Recent comparison testing of climbing ropes among various labs > has shown that the results are all over the map (up to 100%) on a variety > of parameters. I reported this years ago and Mammut/Edelrid recently showed how pervasive the problem is. The UIAA never calibrated/cross-checked the official labs, duh. It basically means the reported stats are not reliable between brands until the UIAA gets their act together. Some companies have been accused of manipulating the data for marketing but there is no way to verify this. Caveat Emptor. > 6) Ropes used for top roping lose strength over an edge very quickly. "They > should not be used for field work." No surprise. Same reason sport climbing is so hard on ropes. > 7) The official position of the Safety Commission regarding rope use for > glacier travel is that one strand of a half rope or twin rope is perfectly > adequate. Nice of them to acknowledge what everyone has done for ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seawolf Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 I am a chemist, and since this appears to be a serious question (despite its humor), I thought I would offer a comment. Briefly --- the vomiting center is located in the medulla oblongata, located in the rear part of the brain. This portion of the brain acts on information supplied by the stomach, the intestines, the gag reflex in the throat, the inner ear, and most importantly, the "chemoreceptor trigger zone" (CTZ), which is located on the floor of the fourth ventricle in the brain (in case anyone is interested). The CTZ takes in data about the possible presence of poisons or toxins in the blood and alerts the vomiting center to do its thing when it believes the body has been poisoned. Stomach acid (or hydrochloric acid), in undiluted form, has a pH of roughly 1.0, and would indeed destroy one's rope if it were to make contact with it in this pure and undiluted form. However, in an important first step as the vomiting process is initiated, the vomiting center triggers the small intestine to send a fair portion of its contents back into the stomach. This starts approx. one minute before vomiting and lasts about 45 seconds. This has the effect of neutralizing the vomit*, making it less damaging to the esophagus, throat, mouth, and teeth. Some researchers contend that expulsion of the intestinal content is a necessary part of the vomiting act in itself (since the intestine is where the toxin was detected by the CTZ), and that the movement into the stomach puts it in place for being ejected. The transfer of intestinal matter also increases the volume in the stomach, which makes vomiting easier. So, logic would dictate that if the actual pH of vomit (as opposed to the pH of stomach contents prior to combining with material from the small intestine) were the same as that of the hydrocholoric acid used in digestion, then the esophogus would be severely damaged as a result of vomiting (the esophogus has no protection against hydrochoric acid as does the stomach). Obviously, people do not routinely suffer damage to the esophogus as a result of normal vomiting of digested food. So, although the pH of vomit is probably slightly acidic, I have my doubts that it is sufficiently acidic to damage your rope (especially if you cleaned or washed it in a reasonable amount of time following contact). More importantly, there are two factors that one should be concerned about that dictate whether or not a rope should used or retired (with vomit or otherwise). The first is its actual physical condition, and the second is your confidence in its ability to hold a fall. Certainly, if the rope does not pass the first criteria, then the second criteria is mute. However, if the rope appears to be good, yet you do not have absolute confidence in it (for whatever reason), then it should be retired. Climbing when you have anxiety about your gear can be as dangerous as climbing with a less than adequate rope. So, the upshot is: I doubt your rope is damaged. BUT, if YOU think it is suspect, then retire it. Sorry for the long post. regards, Brad Seabourn, Ph.D. Manhattan, KS ========= *Ivan M. Lang & S.K. Sarna, "Motor and Myolectric Activity Associated with Vomiting, Regurgitation, and Nausea," in Wood, J.D., ed., Handbook of Physiology: The Gastrointestinal System I: Motility and Circulation, Bethesda, Md.: Bethesda, Md., Physiological Society, 1989: 1179-1198. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolyn Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 damn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleblebleb Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Teeheehee. Usefulness/length -> 0. I mean, everybody else already said doubt it's broken but retire it anyway if you feel like it. The big question is still what to do with Alasdair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seawolf Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 I guess that would depend on your sexual preference. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Seawolf, did you get your Ph.D in "vomitology"? Seriously, you must be working on something like bulimia research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lummox Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 seawolf said: I am a chemist drunks know a lot more about puke than you pill popping chemist types. and the drunks say go free solo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seawolf Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 catbirdseat said: Seawolf, did you get your Ph.D in "vomitology"? Seriously, you must be working on something like bulimia research. No ... nothing like that. However, I did have a really crazy Chem 1 professor who would bring up insane trivial s#!t that obliquely involved chemistry --- and it just so happens that one of his bits of trivia involved the stomach and the fact that it uses HCl to digest food yet the stomach doesn't digest itself, and if you vomit then why doesn't stomach acid destroy your esophogus, etc., etc. etc. I couldn't remember all of the finite details that ended up in my post, so I gave my brother a call --- who happens to be a physician. In any event, the Chem 1 trivia was one of those things that, at the time, I wondered why the hell are we learning this and of what possible use could it be? Now you know the rest of the story. Seawolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seawolf Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 lummox said: seawolf said: I am a chemist drunks know a lot more about puke than you pill popping chemist types. <snip> I agree ... although my personal experience in praying to the porcelain god comes directly from Jack Daniels and Guinness. Seawolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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