erik Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 forget about you all, baby jesus and i are friends! Quote
RuMR Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 JoshK said: Independent of what anybody may or may not think of gay marriages, I believe two things: 1.)The government should get the fuck out of marriage, hetero or homo. It ain't their business. Marriage is about communiion between two people, not a fucking business relationship to be mandated by the government. 2.)With all the shit that is wrong in this country today, and going on across the globe, this is really what bush the dumbfuck needs to be spending his time on? Hell no! It's his typical pandering to the religious right crap. Try fixing a real problem, you sorry ass joke excuse for a leader. Goddamn Josh! An intelligent post from you!!! Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 E-rock you're plain out full of shit. Just because I dont agree with your morals and everybody else's doesnt mean I am a hate monger. That's a pretty pathetic way to argue that everyone else should be swarmed by your beliefs. I dont believe in the goverment money going in any way shape or form to gay marriage couples or any way they try to benefit from it. I dont have to pay for something that I dont believe is not right. Gay marriages. Quote
RuMR Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 kitten said: Cpt.Caveman said: I dont support gay marriages and them "couples" having kids. I dont have to air out why and where here. If you choose to call me a bigot I dont really give a fuck. Gay people don't breed. I have to agree. The government should not have the right to say what happens behind closed doors. Marriage is a public display and the ceremony is held in front of all friends and families. It is not right. There is a functional reason that men have a penis and women have a vagina. KITTEN!!! How can you say that two people (let's use that term) who are in a committed relationship, monogamous, and able to provide a structure to raise healthy children in are not entitled to social, medical, insurance and employment benefits that a "normal" (and there's plenty of "normal" families out there that are all fucked up) family is entitled to??? and all the homobashing going on out there leads me to believe that a lot of you are closet folks...why the hate? Quote
chelle Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 RuMR said: JoshK said: Independent of what anybody may or may not think of gay marriages, I believe two things: 1.)The government should get the fuck out of marriage, hetero or homo. It ain't their business. Marriage is about communiion between two people, not a fucking business relationship to be mandated by the government. 2.)With all the shit that is wrong in this country today, and going on across the globe, this is really what bush the dumbfuck needs to be spending his time on? Hell no! It's his typical pandering to the religious right crap. Try fixing a real problem, you sorry ass joke excuse for a leader. Goddamn Josh! An intelligent post from you!!! In a perfect world the government wouldn't have to get involved in marriage or any other contract because people would just live up to their commitments. Not fully related, but proves a point about doing the right thing in the absense of gov't intervention...Until back in the early 70s companies did not have to pay anything to survivors of spouses who had fully earned a pension and died early. They just kept the money and left the widow and children to fend for themselves. Now there are laws to protect their interest in their spouses pensions. Josh, x-ternal and anyone else who thinks that the gov't doesn't need to be involved in marriage needs to do some reading about women's rights and try to see things from something other than some romantic naiave viewpoint. And religion has nothing to do with marriage for a lot of people in this world. From what I understand marriage as a contract establishes a legal obligation for any debts of the other person entered into during the union (and the sharing of any financial gains) and also makes them obligated to financially support any children that may come from the union. Divorce laws are also set up to protect the women and children from getting nothing from a man who chooses to walk out on obligations. Which is how it was back when women didn't have the same legal entitlements they do today. I agree with OW and E-rock on this one. People who commit to eachother long-term should share in the same legal rights as those who enter into a marriage contract. Straight people have this already through common-law marriage. Gay people should have the same benefits. Another one to add to E-rock's list is the right to visit a loved one in the hospital if visitations are limited to "family-only". Gay people shouldn't have to lie about their relationship and pretend they are brothers/sisters or cousins in order to support a sick person. Quote
RuMR Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Ehmmic...i think josh is saying the same thing as you in a roundabout way... ie. he doesn't think the government should ban marriages...am i wrong, josh? Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 How can you say that two people (let's use that term) who are in a committed relationship, monogamous, and able to provide a structure to raise healthy children in are not entitled to social, medical, insurance and employment benefits that a "normal" (and there's plenty of "normal" families out there that are all fucked up) family is entitled to??? and all the homobashing going on out there leads me to believe that a lot of you are closet folks...why the hate? First of all I dont believe gay people should be adopting. I think it's morally fucked and if it was intended they would not be the same sex. Homo bashing- Well just because I think homosexual people are not all there in the head to raise children or should be entitled to everything doesnt mean I am bashing necessarily. Some of you people that defend homosexuals alway use the same defense that we are bashing hate mongers. That's not very original and a pretty weak argument too. Quote
chelle Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 (edited) RuMR said: Ehmmic...i think josh is saying the same thing as you in a roundabout way... ie. he doesn't think the government should ban marriages...am i wrong, josh? Agreed. I don't think he was saying that it would be wrong to ban gay marriages. Just pointing out some history about some of the reasons the gov't got into the marriage business to begin with. And I agree completely with Josh's second point. Edited July 31, 2003 by ehmmic Quote
Sphinx Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 I agree that the gov't shouldn't ban marriages. But I'm with Caveman on the adoption issue. Most adoped kids need an especially stable environment, and I doubt having "two dads" or "two moms" is going to be very good for the kid. It'll just fuck them up worse. Quote
RuMR Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 cap'n... 1st. I never said YOU were bashing anyone...in this case, i think you're rather reserved from your typical response... 2nd. Moral judgement imposed by a government is BULLSHIT...ie, there's some governments out there that think sex outside a marriage warrants a good ol' stoning...and NAZI germany thought it was the proper thing to do to exterminate a whole race...Bush oughta stay the fuck out of this... 3rd. I know several lesbian families that are raising well adjusted kids. In fact, the kids are more solid than ordinary kids and are the center of the family...conversely, i know plenty of families that are "normal" where abuse, verbal and physical, is rampant and the kids are doomed before they even had a chance. A person's sexual orientation has nothing to do w/ their morals or ability to care for someone, be it a spouse or child... Quote
chelle Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Better than growing up in some orphanage or without two people that love them whole-heartedly. The gov't and tons of psychologists have studied this issue. People of gay parents adopted or not are well adjusted individuals (at least as well as the general population) and don't end up becoming gay because they're copying their "parents" behavior. That belief shows no understanding of the complex issues that underly sexual identity. But what else should I expect from people who grew up in society/culture where by and large sex is a dirty sin only meant for procreation. Spend some time in Europe where they are more open about sexuality in general and there is not nearly as much hate about sexual orientation as in the US. Quote
Fairweather Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Those of you libs who want to approach this topic with the argument that "the government has no business in our bedrooms!" had better re-think that one. Does this mean that I am now free to marry a 12 year old girl? Or boy? Am I now free to marry my sister? First cousin? Can I now start my own harem? The only reply that liberals have to this usually runs full circle, right back to the "societal norms" argument. And obviously this torpedoes their entire premise! But wait! Before you go flaming Fairweather and presume to know what he thinks, read on.... First, let me say that I detest the very idea of homosexuality. It makes me ill to even try and comprehend it. No fucking PC culture or liberal puke is going to convince me it is natural or that I must personally accept it, or allow my children to be taught that it is "normal". Fuck all of you who try. That said, I see no reason why "two adults who love eachother" should be prevented from marrying regardless of their gender. It is an issue of freedom, privacy, and even of state's rights. Additionally, it would (hopefully) put an end to the need for legally complicated "civil unions" now preferred by homosexuals. I am still a Republican. I am still a conservative. I see no reason for the govt to stand in the way of gay marriage. I see no inconsistency in this position with my values. Quote
E-rock Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 I'll tell you what's tired and weak: Conservatives always drawing the line between "right" and "wrong" and that somehow those beliefs are carved in stone and reside in a Platonic version of Heaven... ...or that your convictions against homosexual rights are in any way based on the meager difference said rights may make on the bottom line of your W-2 at the end of the year. I can think of a whole lot of "liberal" government programs that gouge you a hell of a lot more than "gay marriages". Rethink your arguments and come back to us with something that sounds logical AND doesn't wreak of masked hatred. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 wirlwind said: E-rock said: ...divides our nation while it happens. this woulkd acxtually be funny, a civil war split over gay rights i personly think Bush and the other idiots just threw out this topic cuase they new it would create a havoc and people would forget about other shit that they have done, or at least to dampin the spot light alittle. i'd put money on it too... good call Quote
marylou Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Off_White said: You ignorant rat-ass bigots can eat shit. If we can let drooling hydrocephalic louts like you speak and breed, people should be allowed to marry whoever they feel like. I believe Ray gets our "Bigot of the Day" award. Quote
E-rock Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 The thought of Fairweather wretching over a toilet bowl while he tries to imagine a huge COCK being inserted into a tight, but dirty, lubed-up, hair-rimmed, dilated anus, makes me smile. Quote
Sphinx Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Stuff it, Alison. It's pretty obvious he's not a bigot. It's such a lame argument to use, it really makes me feel you understand logic. Quote
Dru Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 ban all marriages. equal rights and tax structure for everyone. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 You ignorant rat-ass bigots can eat shit. Hmmm... given the hypocritical nature of this thread, i hope this is satirical... if not... well... i wont go there Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Dru said: ban all marriages. equal rights and tax structure for everyone. Marxist Canucks Quote
kitten Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 RuMR said: KITTEN!!! How can you say that two people (let's use that term) who are in a committed relationship, monogamous, and able to provide a structure to raise healthy children in are not entitled to social, medical, insurance and employment benefits that a "normal" (and there's plenty of "normal" families out there that are all fucked up) family is entitled to??? and all the homobashing going on out there leads me to believe that a lot of you are closet folks...why the hate? I am sorry to have disappointed you with my firm beliefs. I am NOT homo-bashing. I to have many gay friends and don't judge them for what they do behind closed doors. I don't think I need to justify why I feel this way about gay marriages. I will sum it up into: 'some things you know with your mind and others are in your heart'. And I am not coping out here. I will be happy to discuss this in person and not over the flippn' spray. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 and able to provide a structure to raise healthy children in dubious at best... Quote
RuMR Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 Fence_Sitter said: and able to provide a structure to raise healthy children in dubious at best... Not so...there are plenty of studies showing otherwise... Quote
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