Climber killed on Grand Teton

[ryland_moore]

Here is the link

[wrench]

damn. mike gauthier got caught in a thunderstorm there last summer. we had a little weather hit us on it a week after mike's incident -- makes me feel very lucky! gotta get off that upper mountain before the afternoon for sure.

[ckouba]

A little more info:

 

http://www.jhzone.com/viewinfo.cfm?ObjectID=3F27994E-CD7E-4A1F-9462E6C327BF2209

 

I was there this week and waited out two rounds of violent thunderstorms each afternoon. We went as high as the Moraine but couldn't trust the weather and knew we'd be slow so we bailed. It's weird to think about it... We were driving back to PDX when this happened.

 

CK

[Pencil_Pusher]

Mt Princeton in Colorado has a plaque dedicated to a woman killed by lightning up there, some years ago. That was sobering enough for me to beat feet straight down versus traversing on the trail, when storm clouds approached.

Why are there so few lightning strikes around here (Seattle/PNW)?

[Anna]

Lack of lightning out here....I had this explained in my meteorology class last quarter cuz I inquired about it as well.

 

To create a good thunderstorm you need a source of moisture, cold air up high so that warm air near the surface can rise, and a lifting force so that air can rise rapidly --seldom do these conditions happen at the same time on the west coast. Having the Pacific Ocean nearby is to blame.

 

The Pacific Ocean water temperatures are too cool, even in the middle of summer, to allow the air masses passing over to pick up much moisture. The Pacific also doesn't allow air to rise cuz it creates a shallow layer of cool, stable air that hangs near the surface and will probably not ever rise, quickly that is. Even when thunderstorms do hit the West Coast, most commonly in the fall and spring, they tend to be insignificant with cloud tops maxing out at 15,000 to 20,000 feet, whereas a Midwestern thunderhead can tower to 60,000 feet.

 

This info is taken from "Aviation Weather", written by NOAA and the DOT.

 

[hakioawa]

This weekend a friend and I were in the Bugaboos. We simluclimbed the west ridge on Pigeon spire. Easy 5.4. We were not fast, maybe an hour and 45 miutes to the top? Just as we summited we saw big clouds and heard thunder one basin over and headed our way fast. We litteraly ran off that sucker. No even waiting to un-tie and solo. So we simul-soloed down. Not a smart thing I might add. We passed three groups on the way down. Freaky! I swear I felt my hair start to stand up. Down in 20 minutes. Of course half an hour later the weather cleared and we wished we were un the summit.

[lummox]

Anna said:

Lack of lightning out here....I had this explained in my meteorology class last quarter cuz I inquired about it as well.

 

To create a good thunderstorm you need a source of moisture, cold air up high so that warm air near the surface can rise, and a lifting force so that air can rise rapidly --seldom do these conditions happen at the same time on the west coast. Having the Pacific Ocean nearby is to blame.

 

The Pacific Ocean water temperatures are too cool, even in the middle of summer, to allow the air masses passing over to pick up much moisture. The Pacific also doesn't allow air to rise cuz it creates a shallow layer of cool, stable air that hangs near the surface and will probably not ever rise, quickly that is. Even when thunderstorms do hit the West Coast, most commonly in the fall and spring, they tend to be insignificant with cloud tops maxing out at 15,000 to 20,000 feet, whereas a Midwestern thunderhead can tower to 60,000 feet.

 

This info is taken from "Aviation Weather", written by NOAA and the DOT.

source of moisture huh? that must mean there aint no lightning in the desert?

even stupid me knows that lightning has to do with electricity. charge separation is whats needed not fuckin moisture.

and the yearly headcount for deaths at national parks is pretty high. sucks all the same tho.

[MATT_B]

My condonances to the lady's family and friends

 

I was in the bugaboos a few years back and saw a team that was hit by lightning on top of the howsers. Created some nasty burns. They said they where both paralized for a while. They could smell their own burnt hair and flesh. Once they where able to move again they beat cleats down leaving everything (wall rack and bags) on the summit. It is definetly not something to take lightly.

[erik]

isnt this the reason you are supposed to be down off the high mtn early in the day?

 

its too bad when ones mistakes catch up to them

 

[Dan_Harris]

lummox said:

Anna said:

Lack of lightning out here....I had this explained in my meteorology class last quarter cuz I inquired about it as well.

 

To create a good thunderstorm you need a source of moisture, cold air up high so that warm air near the surface can rise, and a lifting force so that air can rise rapidly --seldom do these conditions happen at the same time on the west coast. Having the Pacific Ocean nearby is to blame.

 

The Pacific Ocean water temperatures are too cool, even in the middle of summer, to allow the air masses passing over to pick up much moisture. The Pacific also doesn't allow air to rise cuz it creates a shallow layer of cool, stable air that hangs near the surface and will probably not ever rise, quickly that is. Even when thunderstorms do hit the West Coast, most commonly in the fall and spring, they tend to be insignificant with cloud tops maxing out at 15,000 to 20,000 feet, whereas a Midwestern thunderhead can tower to 60,000 feet.

 

This info is taken from "Aviation Weather", written by NOAA and the DOT.

source of moisture huh? that must mean there aint no lightning in the desert?

even stupid me knows that lightning has to do with electricity. charge separation is whats needed not fuckin moisture.

and the yearly headcount for deaths at national parks is pretty high. sucks all the same tho.

That charge speparation happens because the warm MOIST air rises rapidly with high temps. All those molecules rubbing together quickly causes the charges to separate. Lightning happens in the desert when you get a moist air flow over the hot dry desert. If you shuffle slowly in your stocking feet on your carpet, no shock. Do it quickly and you get a nice spark. Tumble dry clothes in a dryer and nothing. Tumble wet clothes in a very hot dryer and lots of static.

[Dru]

if i had to choose a way to get whacked getting the zeus zap would be the way to go. lightning bolt electrocution is pretty near instantaneous i hear. best of all if it doesnt kill you you live!

[lummox]

Dan_Harris said:

That charge speparation happens because the warm MOIST air rises rapidly with high temps. All those molecules rubbing together quickly causes the charges to separate. Lightning happens in the desert when you get a moist air flow over the hot dry desert. If you shuffle slowly in your stocking feet on your carpet, no shock. Do it quickly and you get a nice spark. Tumble dry clothes in a dryer and nothing. Tumble wet clothes in a very hot dryer and lots of static.

im confuseder now.

i do know my wool socks stick like a mother fucker to the polypro shirts in the dryer. static cling like a bitch.

[Dan_Harris]

lummox said:

im confuseder now.

i do know my wool socks stick like a mother fucker to the polypro shirts in the dryer. static cling like a bitch.

All that friction in the tumbling rubs charge off one object causing one to be positive one to be negative and opposites attract sticking together. Pull them apart and charges try to go back to neutral, that's all the crackle you hear. Pull them apart in the dark and you can see the little blue sparks. What the hell am I doing? I'm on vacation and school doesn't start for another month. Aggghhh!!! Gotta get out.

[chelle]

Problem Dan is that you live in Salida. You gotta move further east to Ripon -- "The City of Action"

 

Yeah...we all gotta get of this board and get our more.

[mattp]

erik said:

isnt this the reason you are supposed to be down off the high mtn early in the day?

 

its too bad when ones mistakes catch up to them

 

Getting down early is a good game plan, Erik, but many of those Teton climbs are pretty long for the parties that attempt them. I bet that on any given day, many if not most parties on the biger routes find themselves high up at thunderstorm hour.

[Dan_Harris]

Riverbank is the "city of action" to the east. who the hell gave that name to the town? Ripon is north of me, another happening place.

[Dan_Harris]

ehmmic said:

Problem Dan is that you live in Salida. You gotta move further east to Ripon -- "The City of Action"

 

Yeah...we all gotta get of this board and get our more.

ehmmic, how do you know where Salida is?

[Thinker]

One of my homeboys from Idaho reported that they didn't start the climb until around 8 am. He likes to start around 4 am to avoid the regular afternoon thunderstorms.

 

I was with Wrench on the Grand last year and know how easily you can get slowed down routefinding up there. Our late afternoon could have turned just as deadly.

[Anna]

source of moisture huh? that must mean there aint no lightning in the desert?

 

Simpleton!

 

I don't think my teacher, not to mention NOAA, would lie to me. At least I stated my source, unlike some of the smartypants on this board. What do you think clouds are? When air is cooled to a point that it becomes saturated (dew point), it becomes a cloud. Guess what? Clouds can move, great distances at times! Occasionally there IS moisture in the air above the deserts....maybe not near the surface, but at some level. Our atmosphere is HUGE!

[JackY]

 

Ingredients for a thunderstorm:

1. water vapor

2. unstable lapse rate (temp change vs. alt.)

3. initial lifting (mountains, fronts, surface heating)

 

Add and stir vigorously.

 

The water vapor is required to fuel the storm cell. As water vapor condenses into water droplets it releases energy,

latent heat of condensation. This creates a self-sustaining heat engine fueled by water vapor

 

[chelle]

Dan_Harris said:

ehmmic said:

Problem Dan is that you live in Salida. You gotta move further east to Ripon -- "The City of Action"

 

Yeah...we all gotta get of this board and get our more.

ehmmic, how do you know where Salida is?

 

Grew up in Modesto, city of "Water (poisoned/polluted), wealth (only if you're a Gallo), Contentment (maybe), Health (see note re: water)"

 

[Alpinfox]

 

I used to work as an EMT on the summit of Pikes Peak in Colorado. When storms rolled in, one of my jobs was to go outside with a bullhorn and tell tourons that the reason their hair was standing up was that they were about to be struck by lightening, so they should stop giggling and taking pictures of themselves and get inside the lodge or their cars.

 

No one ever got zapped on my watch, but we had some close calls.

[offwidthclimber]

what an unfortunate tragedy for the climber and her family/friends. i have a really good friend who's in the tetons right now with his wife. they're heading up the grand sometime this week (maybe already).

 

i was relieved to not see either of their names reported with regards to this event.

[cluck]

Thinker said:

One of my homeboys from Idaho reported that they didn't start the climb until around 8 am. He likes to start around 4 am to avoid the regular afternoon thunderstorms.

 

I was with Wrench on the Grand last year and know how easily you can get slowed down routefinding up there. Our late afternoon could have turned just as deadly.

 

 

Damn. 8 AM is awefully late to be starting up the Exum Ridge. The ridge is very prone to lightning strikes so it's wise to be off the ridge before the afternoon storms. Most parties descend the Owen Spaulding so I'm assuming these guys were still on the way up when the lightning hit.

[Rodchester]

If you are a small, light, and fast party starting a little late can be a good tactic. The route is not that long, and if you move fast starting late you won't run into the hordes because they're higher on the route.