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Uncle_Tricky

Are trees aid?

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In another thread, PeteyPuget wrote: "Free means that you do not rely on anything artifical to aid your ascent. So, you do not...ARGUABLY pull up on trees and roots etc."

 

So...let's argue!

 

Is pulling on trees, grass, roots, moss, etc aid? Is an ascent somehow less "pure" if you pull on non-rock features? What if pulling on a non rock feature makes the climb significantly easier? It seems the grade of some climbs assume you DO pull on all available features, while other climbs are graded assuming you only climb the rock. Or is specifically trying to avoid pulling on non-rock features just a stupid contrivance? Does it matter whether it's a one-pitch crag climb, a sport climb, a trad climb or an alpine climb?

 

Some different types of examples I can think of:

 

Maple at base of Godzilla.

Bush in corner on Toxic at Index.

"Batman Bush" on Total Soul at Darrington

Large trees growing out of cracks at Octupus gardens in Squamish

Tree at base of crack on SW Rib of SEWS

 

Can anyone else think of examples of climbs where trees or bushes are specifially considered on or off route?

 

Obviously there's no God-Given answer for this one--but do you have any personal ethic? Or do you think, as Dwayner likes to say, "it's all good!"

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Bush in corner on Toxic at Index.

 

grabbed that one yesterday grin.gif but really, if you aren't gonna damage the tree, its in... especially in alpine... usually it is in the way and getting around it without touching it makes it harder and contrived... like saying certain holds are 'out' on a sport climb... but if possible i try not to, but if it is there, the temptation can be great especially if you are gripped.

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There used to be a root on "exasperator" that was really nice to see - you know I grabbed that sumbitch, and didn't call it "freedom free". grin.gif

 

wave.gif

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Fence_Sitter said:

Bush in corner on Toxic at Index.

 

grabbed that one yesterday grin.gif but really, if you aren't gonna damage the tree, its in... especially in alpine... usually it is in the way and getting around it without touching it makes it harder and contrived... like saying certain holds are 'out' on a sport climb... but if possible i try not to, but if it is there, the temptation can be great especially if you are gripped.

 

I think by this logic, pulling on gear would also be considered "in."

 

Trees are definitely aid. tongue.gif

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It's really funny the mundane shit that we climbers wonder about sometimes, but I too have considered this question. In general, if I am wearing rock shoes (i.e. doing a "technical" rock climb) I try to avoid pulling on any non-rock/snow/ice features, but when I am seriously pumped, anything goes. Knee-scums, belly-flops, butt-jams, you name it, I've probably done it at some point.

 

I certainly have no problem throwing a sling around a tree for anchor/pro. Pulling on veggies on a sport-climb seems kind of silly.

 

Several trees and bushes on the descent "trail" from Snow Creek Wall are well polished/broken from use as descent aids. There is also a well used root at the top of Diedre at Squamish that comes to mind. I distinctly remember working for quite a while trying unsuccessfully to figure out a tree-free start of some route, but resorting to stemming off the tree for the first few feet, but I don't remember what route that was.

 

Trees are our friends.

 

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marylou said:

Fence_Sitter said:

Bush in corner on Toxic at Index.

 

grabbed that one yesterday grin.gif but really, if you aren't gonna damage the tree, its in... especially in alpine... usually it is in the way and getting around it without touching it makes it harder and contrived... like saying certain holds are 'out' on a sport climb... but if possible i try not to, but if it is there, the temptation can be great especially if you are gripped.

 

I think by this logic, pulling on gear would also be considered "in."

 

Trees are definitely aid. tongue.gif

 

NO...WOMEN are aid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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All Squamish trees are "on route". In fact the Tami Knight approved finish to a "Squamish classic" is by definition "lunge for the tree". yellaf.gif

 

I stemmed off a tree to place a bolt today. the_finger.gif

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The description for breakfast of champions in sky valley rock says the rating assumes you don't step on the tree.

 

I try not to pull on trees and such when i'm rock climbing. However i do it when scrambling so does that mean i've french free 3rd class confused.gif.

 

I also find that i make a lot of tree moves when winter climbing at low quality pass. I think i have even climbed up and traverse around a tree once.

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This would be a great topic for the NEW TREE CLIMBING FORUM HCL.gif

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We all know what post #26 on this thread is gonna say. The big question is who is gonna say it, me, attitude, iaxx or an interloper?

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marylou said:

 

Trees are definitely aid. tongue.gif

 

How about bushes?

 

I grabbed your momma's today - is that aid? the_finger.gif

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Trees are part of the route. Getting through, over, around the suckers is often the most challenging part of the route.

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RuMR said:

NO...WOMEN are aid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

i thought aid was supposed to make things easier!!!

 

 

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I like the little tree and later the root on the ledge/traverse near the top of Snake at Squish.

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Thinker said:

I like the little tree and later the root on the ledge/traverse near the top of Snake at Squish.

 

I like the tree at the top of Whirlwind which prevented me from groundfalling off the ledge at the top of the Apron thumbs_up.gif

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I don't give a rat's ass who finds it funny. It's not appropriate, and this isn't the spray section. thumbs_down.gif

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marylou said:

I don't give a rat's ass who finds it funny. It's not appropriate, and this isn't the spray section. thumbs_down.gif

 

Its ALL SPRAY ALL THE TIME!!!!!! fruit.gif

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marylou said:

Fence_Sitter said:

Bush in corner on Toxic at Index.

 

grabbed that one yesterday grin.gif but really, if you aren't gonna damage the tree, its in... especially in alpine... usually it is in the way and getting around it without touching it makes it harder and contrived... like saying certain holds are 'out' on a sport climb... but if possible i try not to, but if it is there, the temptation can be great especially if you are gripped.

 

I think by this logic, pulling on gear would also be considered "in."

 

Trees are definitely aid. tongue.gif

 

I call bullshit because you should climb and approach something like Calculus Crack or St Vitus Dance approach. Via 5.7 "tree" climbing as noted in the guidebook. wazzup.gif Or even try Mt Index for instance. cry.gif

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marylou said:

Fence_Sitter said:

Bush in corner on Toxic at Index.

 

grabbed that one yesterday grin.gif but really, if you aren't gonna damage the tree, its in... especially in alpine... usually it is in the way and getting around it without touching it makes it harder and contrived... like saying certain holds are 'out' on a sport climb... but if possible i try not to, but if it is there, the temptation can be great especially if you are gripped.

 

I think by this logic, pulling on gear would also be considered "in."

 

Trees are definitely aid. tongue.gif

 

you've never climbed at squish rolleyes.gif of is that you've never climbed at all? i cant tell... lets see you doing any route on the apron without touching a tree and i will let you do hwat you will with me... i know it is a big HCL.gif prize, but i know you cant do it... yellaf.gif

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