Rainier rescue in the Seattle Times 6/22

[Dru]

How many pot smokers had to be rescued from MuiR hut this weekend???

 

ZERO!!!!!!

 

bwahaha pagetop

[Bronco]

The only thing newsworthy on this subject is Mattp's strong arm tactics.

 

Here's what I read:

 

Some mountain climbers sat out bad weather for a few hours and called the rangers a couple times.

 

whoopidy doo.

[Figger_Eight]

I think Mr. G. should expect that anybody going to climb Mount Rainier has checked the weather report and that if they ask anything at all about conditions they are asking about on-the-ground conditions like the trail, stream crossings, crevasses, etc.

 

Yup...I agree.

[Rodchester]

Anothing thing which probably didn't help was a certain ranger at the whiteriver station telling people, including our group, that "Conditions are perfect! Couldn't be any better!" without even mentioning the weather!!

 

Man that would be a first. Usually its sounds more like....Oh its a death route, 70 degree water ice, wicked hard, bad conditions, be prepared for Everest and denali all in one peak. You'll need 87 ice screws, Do you have oxygen?

 

Not saying I don't believe your statement, but it is a first in my experience.

 

I also adjusted my plans based on weather, but we each have to make our own decisions...

[Distel32]

I was quite surprised also rod! you can call and confirm with my partners if you really want.

 

Mattp: I think if people haven't checked the weather the rangers should at least say "hey forecast doesn't look good" If they don't these things happen more often! I will never complain about rangers trying to scare me away, quote me on that! they should at the least just warn people.

[ken4ord]

Snafflecock said:

One thing that kind of grinds on me is that the Everett Mountaineers were on a climb that many of the folks needed in order to graduate from their basic course....I know its total speculation but do you think that that the fact that the students needed to summit to complete their graduation requirements contributed to their decision to go for the summit despite the rather nasty forecast?

 

I agree with that. Being new out here, when I heard about that, making required climbs inorder to move up throught the ranks, I just thought how stupid. 1st don't we have enough hoops to jump through in our daily lives. 2nd I thought it was funny that the same group publishes the book called Freedom of the Hills. Doesn't sound like freedom to me, then you got fees to be a member. 3rd there is something to be said about making smart decisions, like maybe not going for the climb or turning back earlier, that doesn't seem to have any reward within the Mounties org. Snafflecock, (damn whats up with the name, sidetracked), might be some spectulation, but I am sure it had some play in the decisions that were being made up on the mountain if indeed they were there to graduate. Hope I never graduate, just keep learning from each experience.

[Greg_W]

catbirdseat said:

As it happened I put in a nice brick walkway in the front yard and scored a few honey do points.

 

So, did she actually let you SEE your testicles or what? Bwahahahahahaha!!!

[Rodchester]

Well, well, well--this asshole was non other than Jack Lamont--same dude who had to call for the rescue; HA! Hope he now knows what it feels like to freeze his ass off!

 

[mattp]

Distel, I would agree that a gentle word to the wise might be warranted if the weather forecast is bad but, like Rodchester, my experience over the years has been that rangers have generally told me all kinds of B.S. in order to discourage me from setting out on a climb. I am not inclined to complain about it if the Mount Rainier rangers actually know what they are talking about (I think both the Mr. G's that I know who are rangers there do) and if they are encouraging. Also, I'm sure that most climbers don't want to hear from the ranger that the weather forecast is bad because many of us have "authority issues" and most will have already checked the weather report and if we are there, we have decided to try the climb anyway. If there was a sudden change in the weather report and he thought it might have been different from what you probably heard when you left your house in the morning, I am sure he would have told you about it. But it was really not his responsibility to do so.

[Duchess]

i don't personally think that a ranger can be faulted for providing a "wrong" weather forecast. the weather forecast is wrong 75% of the time up at rainier! it's every climbers responsibility to check around at multiple forecasts, and then make their own decisions based on their best judgement.

i think these climbers' main problem was that they used their cell phone as a preventative tool--claiming to need a rescue when what they meant was, we MIGHT need a rescue. as soon as climbers claim to need a rescue, all sorts of complex tools (people and resources) are mobilized for the effort. i doubt these guys had the faintest idea what they were starting down at white river ranger station...

[connyia]

I am a little steamed at everyone being so quick to criticize. I got the whole dirt and in all honesty they summitted in good weather, clear sky. There were many other parties climbing at the same time. Unfortunately, the weather came in when they were coming down, shit happens, climbing is a risky sport. They called not for a rescue, or expecting a helicopter, but just to let the rangers know that there was a party up there at risk and to keep an ear out in case they don't come out. Maybe the call didn't need to be made, but they erred for caution, instead of waiting to make the call when it might have been too late. Yes the weather report was not promising, but you never can tell what the weather will be like until you get up there. I have been in the shittiest weather down in Paradise but summitted in the most fantastic weather. So the bottom line is quick making these judgements until you hear the whole scoop!!!

[micajones]

"Three reported severe coughing."

 

Ganja and spindrift don't mix. I think I'm getting the picture here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thelawgod]

connyia said:

I am a little steamed at everyone being so quick to criticize. I got the whole dirt and in all honesty they summitted in good weather, clear sky. There were many other parties climbing at the same time. Unfortunately, the weather came in when they were coming down, shit happens, climbing is a risky sport. They called not for a rescue, or expecting a helicopter, but just to let the rangers know that there was a party up there at risk and to keep an ear out in case they don't come out. Maybe the call didn't need to be made, but they erred for caution, instead of waiting to make the call when it might have been too late. Yes the weather report was not promising, but you never can tell what the weather will be like until you get up there. I have been in the shittiest weather down in Paradise but summitted in the most fantastic weather. So the bottom line is quick making these judgements until you hear the whole scoop!!!

 

Oh shut the hell up you wanker! You’re analysis is as fucked up as undoubtedly you are. Without a doubt you are an Everett Mountie member who has registered to defend your poor, blameless, innocent, hardmen dip shit members. Kiss my ass tool.

 

Edited June 24, 2003 by thelawgod

[JoshK]

thelawgod said:

connyia said:

I am a little steamed at everyone being so quick to criticize. I got the whole dirt and in all honesty they summitted in good weather, clear sky. There were many other parties climbing at the same time. Unfortunately, the weather came in when they were coming down, shit happens, climbing is a risky sport. They called not for a rescue, or expecting a helicopter, but just to let the rangers know that there was a party up there at risk and to keep an ear out in case they don't come out. Maybe the call didn't need to be made, but they erred for caution, instead of waiting to make the call when it might have been too late. Yes the weather report was not promising, but you never can tell what the weather will be like until you get up there. I have been in the shittiest weather down in Paradise but summitted in the most fantastic weather. So the bottom line is quick making these judgements until you hear the whole scoop!!!

 

Oh shut the hell up you wanker! You’re analysis is as fucked up as undoubtedly you are. Without a doubt you are an Everett Mountie member who has registered to defend your poor, blameless, innocent, hardmen dip shit members. Kiss my ass tool.

 

 

 

Well said.

 

Whatever, if they had been competent they would have allowed for the fact that weather could change for the worse and they'd have to get down in shitty visibility.

[Attitude]

Where's Necro on this topic? Isn't he the expert on calling for rescue?

[Bob_Clarke]

iceguy said:

Sept. of last year there was a post entitled: “Worst Partner you ever climbed with.” I posted that one of my worst partners was a guy who’d left me at 12.5K on Rainier (Emmons) w/only a bivy sack, and that I about froze my ass off:

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/threadz/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB23&Number=100012&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1

 

Well, well, well--this asshole was non other than Jack Lamont--same dude who had to call for the rescue; HA! Hope he now knows what it feels like to freeze his ass off!

 

Now THAT is funny. Looks like he got what he deserved. Big pussy.

[mattp]

Connya's right, guys. Have you ever been involved in any kind of rescue or accident? There are always judgment errors involved. Have you ever had any kind of epic? There was always a judgment error involved. Have you ever been lucky that your own mistake didn't cause you to have an epic or an accident? There was a judgment error involved. It is easy to sit here and say "I wouldn't have made that mistake" and you may be right, but the fact is that you wise ones make your own mistakes and, as of yesterday, you really didn't know what you were talking about. It is exactly this kind of speculation that you criticize in the press, or in other people's reactions to your own trip reports.

 

Maybe they made such huge mistakes that your criticisms are justified, but the basis for your criticisms seems to be that the weather report called for unsettled weather (I don't think there was any prediction of heavy moisture or unusually high wind), and that they called the rangers when they found themselves stuck at 13,000 feet (we don't know who called, why they thought they were calling, or what they said). Lawgod criticizes them for having only 2 sleeping bags for 9 people or 1 bag for 6, but I doubt more than 1% of the parties who climb from Muir or Schurman (even in the winter) carry more than this. He gripes about a prior incident and maybe the "other guy" was the jerk but, from what I have observed, it is standard practice to leave somebody behind when climbing the Emmons or the Cleaver with a large party and one person is starting to lag. Wands? Most of us would laugh at anybody who carried a bunch of wands up Mount Rainier even in the winter, let alone the summer.

 

You folks are just carrying on the typical cc.com snipefest where everybody jumps on the bandwagon and calls each other names so they can show how clever they are. You at least ought to give them the benefit of the doubt until you know or even have grounds to think you know what actually happened. Otherwise, you are just like those clueless "other people" who say that climbers are irresponsible and they should be forced to pay for their own rescues.

 

 

[Redoubt]

mattp said:

You folks are just carrying on the typical cc.com snipefest where everybody jumps on the bandwagon and calls each other names so they can show how clever they are.

 

Well, duh. So, what's your point?

 

[mattp]

Good one, Redoubt. I guess I'm doing the same, aren't I?

[JoshK]

mattp said:

You folks are just carrying on the typical cc.com snipefest where everybody jumps on the bandwagon and calls each other names so they can show how clever they are.

 

Well, of course Matt, isn't that what this place is all about?

[Rodchester]

Lawgod criticizes them for having only 2 sleeping bags for 9 people or 1 bag for 6, but I doubt more than 1% of the parties who climb from Muir or Schurman (even in the winter) carry more than this.

 

Now that is totally true. And many here would sya that they don't carry a bag becuase they are too fast, or too smart, or that they only go when they know the weather is perfect.

 

As I have said above repeatedly, I'll give em some leeway untill I hear the whole story...but I am skeptical.

[mattp]

Rodchester said:I'll give em some leeway untill I hear the whole story...but I am skeptical.

 

Skepticism and hindsite analysis are valuable. Particularly when it comes to a public or semi-public discussion of mountain rescues, though, uninformed flammage and personal sniping should be avoided.

[ryland_moore]

Wands? Most of us would laugh at anybody who carried a bunch of wands up Mount Rainier even in the winter, let alone the summer.

 

 

I guess we don't think along the same lines Matt, as wands have allowed me to summit and descend in whiteouts on Rainier. Without them, maybe I would have been trying to figure out how to call White River (although I don't carry my phone on climbs). Wands are absolutely neccessary in incliment weather on the bigger mountains, and I wouldn't go up without them. Even a GPS can act up or be off. Look where it got Dan -!

[Thinker]

Trying to be objective as possible, I only see one egregious error…that being the failure to mark the way back to the snow bridge over the schrund. If the cell phone call was made by a whiner without group consensus, that may indeed be a second.

 

While I do have my personal views about how GPS makes for lazy navigators, I’ll not go into that here. I think every person in each party had the responsibility to recognize that the bridge was a crucial point in their descent and each had the responsibility to pull out a compass (at the very least) and take a bearing on the summit or some other feature in order to get back there. Granted, the later poor visibility could have made getting back there more difficult, but at least they’d have had a better chance with a bearing, or better yet, wands. In this particular case, each should have been confident that such a crucial feature had been logged into the GPS unit(s).

 

So, as Matt P said, an error in judgment….compounded with the changing weather and additional errors in judgment (lack of sleeping bags, bivy bags, etc.) it could have easily turned fatal.

 

Regarding the weather, we all know how different the weather at 10,000 and 14,000 can be from that at 6,000. If I’ve got the time off from work the permits in hand for a scheduled climb of Rainier, I’ll often leave the trailhead even in rain or snow and head on up to the camps at 10,000 or 11,000 just to see how it’s doing up there. Sounds like they had great weather for the climb up and got nailed on the way down. Unless one has first hand info about the conditions that high on the hill at the time, I don’t think one can reasonably second-guess that aspect of this particular climb.

 

Hmmm……reasonably……..I can’t believe I just said that word in a cc.com post…………

 

As always, just MY opinion.

 

[Attitude]

Rescued