Accident in Squamish

[olyclimber]

Be safe. Take no page top, anchor, or saftey mechanism for granted. Edited June 2, 2004 by olyclimber

[Lambone]

I am glad someone posted an analysis of the accident, as I had never heard what happened, and was very curious considering the number of years of climbing experience all climbers involved had between them.

 

Saying that it was "not an accident" is just uncalled for. That's like saying...well you know..I don't even want to say it.

 

And I don't blame RumR for the way he responded as i know he is close to those involved. The insults don't belong here though.

[billcoe]

why not post a series of facts about the accident only? and why the statement that this was not an accident?????

 

I agree with Rumr. If "not" an accident, then it was intentional, ie: murder. Thats way out of line. Better just to post facts and not speculation, I'm sure those involved feel terrible already.

 

Jeffski: Sounds like the 2nd rope wasnt' even tied to the first rope and the belayer ran out of rope and it slipped through his belay device.

 

The remarqable part is that it sounds like there were plenty of qualified people standing around talking, none of whom noticed this glaring glitch.

 

How the heck does that happen?

[fern]

 

I think when they started the lower there WAS a 2nd rope attached, and that knot was expected to reach the belayer at about the same distance as the climber would reach the intermediate station on Exasperator (this jibes with the statement that he fell 25m). However with the new party wanting their rope strung up the original 2 ropes were untied and before the new rope was tied on the rope end ran through the device. The original lowering plan was fine - the climber could have temporarily anchored to a bolted station while the knot was passed, but changing the plan on the fly to accomodated the new party resulted in some serious mistakes.

 

The coroner's comments about a social atmosphere leading to a lack of attention is the most important lesson in my opinion.

[DCramer]

It was simply a tragic accident. It is no different than most other climbing accidents. We are all human. There is no big secret to be learned and what can be learned is available upon inspection and requires no detailed analysis. Be careful.

 

I would (and have) without reservation rope up with any of the climbers involved in the accident.

 

DC

Edited June 2, 2004 by DCramer

[catbirdseat]

Did they know it would take two ropes to accomplish the lower before they stated? I, as the belayer, would want to have personal responsibility for all aspects of the lower. This means that the climber doesn't unclip from the top anchor until I've tied the ropes together myself.

 

I've seen what can happen when a bunch of people are around you talking at you, distracting you. Sometimes you have to tell everyone, "just shut up, I need to concentrate on what I'm doing".

[EWolfe]

I agree Darryl. I also have roped up with several of the climbers involved in this accident, and no-one feels worse than they do. I still trust them completely as partners, maybe even more so now.

 

It was just a moment of changing procedure, as mentioned, with the distraction of a group around. Very unfortunate, and Dave is sorely missed.

[mattp]

I understand the reactions to Rescueman's statement that "it was not an accident," as I have many times taken a critical position toward monday-morning quarterbacks and finger-pointers on this site. I think all of us, too, can readily sympathize with the ongoing sense of horror that we can only imagine must be extremely profound for all involved. However, I think perhaps Rescueman had a point here that we should not overlook: I imagine he may have intended to suggest nothing more than that, after a tragedy like this, we should not downplay the significance of this event by saying something like "it was an accident," or "it will never happen to me because I am a careful belayer" or by finding some other reason to downplay or ignore importnat lessons that can be learned here.

 

Fern, I think, pointed to one of the most important and (to me) striking lessons that may be learned here. In the social setting that occurs where climbers are gathered at the base of a climb or even a belay ledge high in the air, a momentary distraction or loss of attention can easily lead to injury or death.

[erden]

if the knot had to be passed through the belayers device, then clearly the climber would have had to anchor himself to the wall during that process.

 

i just don't see another way the knot could have been passed.

 

A prussik, klemheist or bachman knot used in conjunction with a load releasing knot would give one the ability to transfer the load to a cord or a sling. Then one can disengage the belay device, and move it to the other side of the knot on the rope.

 

Erden.

[billcoe]

It was simply a tragic accident. It is no different than most other climbing accidents. We are all human. There is no big secret to be learned and what can be learned is available upon inspection and requires no detailed analysis. Be careful.

 

I would (and have) without reservation rope up with any of the climbers involved in the accident.

 

DC

 

Good point DC. It wasn't that long ago Lynn Hill, whom is widely thought of highly for both her safety skills and climbing skill, climbed an entire route thinking she was tyed in - with the rope only loosely run through her harness and augered in from the top of the climb after leaning back to lower. Same kind of thing, lots of highly skilled climbing people and no one paying attention to that 1 little critical detail. Fortunatly, she was very lucky and miraculosly escaped serious injury.

[jefffski]

if the knot had to be passed through the belayers device, then clearly the climber would have had to anchor himself to the wall during that process.

 

i just don't see another way the knot could have been passed.

 

A prussik, klemheist or bachman knot used in conjunction with a load releasing knot would give one the ability to transfer the load to a cord or a sling. Then one can disengage the belay device, and move it to the other side of the knot on the rope.

 

Erden.

 

Thanks. that makes the most sense. but what is not mentioned in the report is how the belayer was planning on making the pass.

 

i can understand that the ropes were undone without the belayers knowledge, but what system did he have in place?

 

was he just waiting for the knot to hit his belay plate, attach a prussik from the weighted rope to his harness and then transfer. that is almost reasonable but the coroner made no mention of it. i think the belayers role would be mitigated by his intentions.

 

i was involved in a serious rappeling accident that almost took the life of a friend. it was partially my fault. only by a careful analysis of what i did wrong did i learn something-which was btw, always weight the rap rope while being anchored separately.

 

the point here is not to lay blame but to learn

 

peace

 

jeff

[johndavidjr]

whatever the cause, obviously an accident. Poster who suggested otherwise was thoughtless in making (equally) obvious point about the N word.

[erden]

was he just waiting for the knot to hit his belay plate, attach a prussik from the weighted rope to his harness and then transfer.

 

The transfer to a cord/sling needs to happen before the knot arrives at the belay device. If one secures the cord to the rope and engages a load release knot at the other end of the cord, then the way to transfer the load to the cord is to release some more rope through the belay device.

 

Can't do that with the knot sitting on the belay device already.

 

i was involved in a serious rappeling accident that almost took the life of a friend. it was partially my fault. only by a careful analysis of what i did wrong did i learn something-which was btw, always weight the rap rope while being anchored separately.

 

the point here is not to lay blame but to learn

 

I have made many mistakes that I have caught in time. These include correcting wrongly tied knots at the last moment to noticing faulty gear. Each time my internal conversation was "I can't keep doing this shit and expect to live!"

 

I agree with the learning part. What is most important is to have the awareness to recognize the consequences of mistakes before it is too late. Without awareness, one proceeds blindly into danger. Climbing is all about risk management and mitigating the risks in the most economical fashion. I hope that everyone will pass through their growing years safely, also not grow complacent about safety once they are "good" climbers.

 

That is why Accidents in North America makes good reading...

 

Erden.

[snoboy]

I think all these ideas about using prussics and stuff to effect a transfer are actually quite misguided.

 

Simple is better, and simple is safer IMO. What I do in a case like this is simply to use two belay devices. Lower until the knot is jammed on the first device, then get climber to unweight rope momentarily while I grab the other rope, and pop the 1st device off. Then climber weights rope again, and lower away.

 

With communication and preplanning this is a very simple and safe system.

 

I bet that a lot of people don't even know the proper way to set up a weight transfer with tied off munters and all that jazz. Not to mention that it could turn into a bit of a clusterf%^&k on your harness.

 

As to the accident, I have really no idea what happened, not having been there, and so have no comments on what went wrong.

[erden]

actually quite misguided.

 

Simple is better, and simple is safer IMO.

This is one way. It assumes that the route is not overhanging, or allows for a spot for the climber to hang to unweight the rope, neither of which are always guaranteed. Perhaps the climber has to use the other half of the rope to secure himself in mid air while the belayer does his switching...

 

If the leader is not communicating for any reason, perhaps due to an injury, the plans to talk to each other will not work... how would one lower the leader then?

 

Best not to dismiss available methods off hand.

 

Erden.

[snoboy]

Then maybe it's time to think about rappelling...

 

Yes, I agree that it would be a good way to lower an injured climber/leader. But I still stand by my assertion that a lot of people would have no idea how to do it properly.

[Alpinfox]

But I still stand by my assertion that a lot of people would have no idea how to do it properly.

 

 

Escape belay using Munter+Mule knot (releasable under tension) <--- Clickity Clickity

[Jerome]

This was clearly a tragedy for all involved, but from what has been so far posted I can't agree with the coroner's conclusion that this was an accident.

 

This fatality was the result of extreme negligence on the part of both the belayer and whoever was switching the ropes on the ground, and the belayer always holds primary responsibility for the safety of the climber on the sharp end of the rope.

 

While I'm sure those responsible don't need any more blame aimed at them than they're already feeling, I believe it's important for the climbing community to identify this mistake properly so that it isn't repeated in some other form.

 

- Robert

 

Not very bright, Robert.

 

An accident by definition is either preventable of non-preventable. In this case the accident was preventable.

 

What exactly are you driving at by 'extreme negligence'? Are you suggesting that this was something aside from a tragic concatenation of events which every human on the planet could have been party to? That is, after all, an accident.

 

Are you suggesting that you've never, ever made a similar mistake?

 

How else would you define 'accident'?

 

If the discussion involved spilt juice it wouldn't really matter, but do you have any concept that a lot of people rather liked Dave? Do you have the gentlemanly grace, the social tact to understand that what you've said is about as kind as asking a mother why she let her child run into the street in a moment of inattention?

 

Are you such a putz?

 

 

- Jerome

[jefffski]

I bet that a lot of people don't even know the proper way to set up a weight transfer with tied off munters and all that jazz.

 

okay. i didn't. but now i do. thanks for your (not so) subtle encouragement.

 

jeff