Pulling bolts - any tips?

[snoboy]

I don't have a problem getting the 1/4" ones out, a funkness usually does the job quickly.

 

The 3/8 wedge bolts that are common here are a problem though. There are a few non stainless ones left from the 80's that are probably still safe, but they are starting to look bad. Usually we just break them off and drill a new hole nearby. I would like to pull them and redrill to 1/2" ideally.

 

Any ideas on getting them out?

[jordop]

If you put the old ones under your pillow at night, you might get a visit from Wolfgang Gullich

[klenke]

Any ideas on getting them out?

 

You could see if the Incredible Hulk is for hire.

[Dru]

retrosaurus

[glen]

The uber-tool for bolt extraction is a ball-joint tool, available at any auto shop. Slot the tongs of the 'fork' under the hanger and drive them under with a few quick blows from a wall hammer. The mechanical advantage is awesome, and works amazingly well. I've also tried working with crowbars, etc, but this works waaay better.

A pic of the tool

[JayB]

Glen:

 

Has this worked for you with 3/8th expansion bolts? I've used this set-up for old 1/4"ers but wondered if it would work on the burlier 3/8th types......

[glen]

I've used it on old quarter inchers and on Star Dryvens where it worked beautifully. Any of the 5 piece expansion bolts are going to be more diffucult to pull out because the sleeve cams more as it is pulled out along its axis. I've never had to pull one, but it seems that it may work well to pull it out a bit, tap it back a bit to decouple the expansion sleeve and then pull again and repeat until it's out. Regardless, the fork offers more controlled mechanical advantage than crowbars (etc) and is less likely to come loose and hurt you. I wonder how hooking a funkness device up to an 8lb sledge would work? You can break clean pieces of hard granite off with a sledge that big (field tested often), so it may be a feasible way to improve on finishing the job once the bolt is far enough out that the fork no longer engages the bottom of the hanger- or from the get go, for that matter. A bit heavy to get up, but may be just what the doctor ordered.

 

Regardless, once you start messing with the bolt, finish the job!

 

Also, for those unfamiliar with which bolts are scary, etc... , please go see

ASCA Bolt information

[freeclimb9]

glen said:

I've used it on old quarter inchers and on Star Dryvens where it worked beautifully. Any of the 5 piece expansion bolts are going to be more diffucult to pull out because the sleeve cams more as it is pulled out along its axis. I've never had to pull one, but it seems that it may work well to pull it out a bit, tap it back a bit to decouple the expansion sleeve and then pull again and repeat until it's out. Regardless, the fork offers more controlled mechanical advantage than crowbars (etc) and is less likely to come loose and hurt you. I wonder how hooking a funkness device up to an 8lb sledge would work? You can break clean pieces of hard granite off with a sledge that big (field tested often), so it may be a feasible way to improve on finishing the job once the bolt is far enough out that the fork no longer engages the bottom of the hanger- or from the get go, for that matter. A bit heavy to get up, but may be just what the doctor ordered.

 

Regardless, once you start messing with the bolt, finish the job!

 

Also, for those unfamiliar with which bolts are scary, etc... , please go see

ASCA Bolt information

You're off about the 5 piece bolts. All you have to do is unscrew them, and lift the sleeve out with needle nose pliers. If you want to drill the hole deeper, or a larger diameter, the drill bit will go right through the aluminum wedge sleeve left in the bottom of the hole.

 

The original question was about wedge type anchors. Those don't come out. Thre break it off then drive it deep before drilling a new hole is the only way I know of to update them.

[Retrosaurus]

Auto parts store, tie rod separator or ball joint separator, I cannot remember which is smaller, but the smaller one works better. Get two and drive them in from opposite sides. Get a heavy hammer, or two. Synchronizing blows from opposite sides is the most effective way to create straight pull out force and avoid breaking off the bolt. Handy to have spacers to place under the bolt hanger after driving a pair of opposing forks to the hilt as this usually does not pull the bolt far enough to free it from the rock. This will almost always cleanly remove a 3/8" wedge type anchor. Can work on 1/2 " also but they are a lot more work and break off much more often. When they do break off you have to drive the remainder back into the hole. The 5- piece or 7-piece or what ever they are that have the machine-bolt head as opposed to the machine-nut head can just be disassembled and the innards fished out with a wire.

 

 

( Dru)

[lummox]

Retrosaurus said:

ball joint separator

that just sounds nasty

[JayB]

Retrosaurus said:

Handy to have spacers to place under the bolt hanger after driving a pair of opposing forks to the hilt as this usually does not pull the bolt far enough to free it from the rock.

 

Mitch:

 

What do you use for the spacer?

[Retrosaurus]

A few really thick washers and oversized hex nuts that will slip over the stud without having to thread them. This necessitates removing the hanger and putting the nuts and washers on and then replacing the hanger to continue driving the bolt out. You need to not mangle the outermost threads too much. If you made or found some spacers with a slot cut in them so they could be slipped in horseshoe-style under the hanger, that would be much simpler. A pair of visegrips can be handy to hold onto the stud while trying to thread get the nut on or off to insert the spacers.

[snoboy]

Great tips, thanks guys, especially retrosaurus. I wish I had known this weekend, as there are a few ugly new scars out there, that may not have been neccesary.

 

Retro - Do you find it neccesary to go up to a 1/2" bolt after this treatment? It sounds like it would be pretty abusive to the hole.

Edited May 27, 2003 by snoboy

[Retrosaurus]

The hole has always remained in apparently good shape. But I don't replace bolts. I remove pussy convenience bolts when the rock provides enough natural features to protect the climb.

[richard_noggin]

Retrosaurus said:

The hole has always remained in apparently good shape. But I don't replace bolts. I remove pussy convenience bolts when the rock provides enough natural features to protect the climb.

 

He also is not climbing at 10:03 on memorial day.

What up ?

partners with tie rod busters on their rack hard to come by?

[Retrosaurus]

I have two pickle forks and so don't need a partner with one.

And who needs partners just to go climbing?

[spew]

There are better and cleaner ways of chopping bolts than ball joint busters and crowbars and the like, I will not go into that because of the missuse. To redrill from 3/8 to 1/2 inch your bit will probably get stuck . Remove bolt in a clean fashion, than use epoxy putty that you can get from most hardware stores like home depo, it mixes in you fingers, fill hole with this and cover with dirt and or small rock dust to finish ,as you get better even you will not be able to tell where the hole was . Than I would drill a GOOD hole . If I believe in your cause drop me a PM and I will tell you how to clean chop.

[lummox]

spew said:

There are better and cleaner ways of chopping bolts than ball joint busters and crowbars and the like, I will not go into that because of the missuse. To redrill from 3/8 to 1/2 inch your bit will probably get stuck . Remove bolt in a clean fashion, than use epoxy putty that you can get from most hardware stores like home depo, it mixes in you fingers, fill hole with this and cover with dirt and or small rock dust to finish ,as you get better even you will not be able to tell where the hole was . Than I would drill a GOOD hole . If I believe in your cause drop me a PM and I will tell you how to clean chop.

im not worthy.

[allthumbs]

spew said:

There are better and cleaner ways of chopping bolts than ball joint busters and crowbars and the like, I will not go into that because of the missuse. To redrill from 3/8 to 1/2 inch your bit will probably get stuck . Remove bolt in a clean fashion, than use epoxy putty that you can get from most hardware stores like home depo, it mixes in you fingers, fill hole with this and cover with dirt and or small rock dust to finish ,as you get better even you will not be able to tell where the hole was . Than I would drill a GOOD hole . If I believe in your cause drop me a PM and I will tell you how to clean chop.

 

Now this guy has a great idea and makes some REAL sense.