Mounties and WAC climbing the Tooth this weekend

[Sphinx]

Ursa_Eagle said:

I'm sorry for my previous posts. Alpinfox and Sloth_Man are obviously much better than anyone who has ever joined the mounties. They are superior in every way, and they have never carried more than 5 lbs into the backcountry. They never used ropes until they were 1000 feet up El Cap. They have never done any conditioning hike, rather, they just go up to the mountain and climb Rainier in under 4 hours. Please accept my apologies oh great gods of climbing!

 

 

Ursa, I think the Mounties and Mazamas suck because of their attitudes, because they tend to occupy routes for hours, and because their posturing. Plus it's fun to ridicule people for carrying 70lbs up to the Tooth. I tend to have a problem with large groups, period, it's not just the Mounties. They're just somewhat worse.

 

Ridiculing people for roping up on a snowfield isn't just because they are mounties. I remember someone getting flamed becuase they top-roped a snowbank in the parking lot. Whatever floats your boat, I guess. But groups still suck.

[specialed]

Attitude said:

specialed said:

erik said:

specialed said:

I need someone to make fun of to feel good about myself.

u r pathetic arent you?

Why? Because I tell the truth.

No, because you need someone to make fun of to feel good about yourself.

 

So? You are making fun of me right now so you can feel better about yourself. Hypocrite.

[Attitude]

Lambone said:

Yeah Mountaineers are people too...

 

...just like the elementry school kids who walk around my neighborhood all holding on to a rope and taking directions from their teacher.

Of course, Mountie SEF didn't need help getting off Glacier Peak.

[Sphinx]

Attitude said:

Lambone said:

Yeah Mountaineers are people too...

 

...just like the elementry school kids who walk around my neighborhood all holding on to a rope and taking directions from their teacher.

Of course, Mountie SEF didn't need help getting off Glacier Peak.

 

[specialed]

specialed said:

Attitude said:

specialed said:

erik said:

specialed said:

I need someone to make fun of to feel good about myself.

u r pathetic arent you?

Why? Because I tell the truth.

No, because you need someone to make fun of to feel good about yourself.

 

So? You are making fun of me right now so you can feel better about yourself. Hypocrite.

 

Don't have much to say to this do you?

[Attitude]

specialed said:

Attitude said:

specialed said:

erik said:

specialed said:

I need someone to make fun of to feel good about myself.

u r pathetic arent you?

Why? Because I tell the truth.

No, because you need someone to make fun of to feel good about yourself.

 

So? You are making fun of me right now so you can feel better about yourself. Hypocrite.

No. You asked a question and I answered it.

[Sloth_Man]

Hey I'm not a good climber or even an average climber. Take a look at my name if you need a clue about my big wall skills.

 

I'm just as stupid as the next guy, but at least I don't travel in packs, and I don't strut around like a rooster every time I lead a 5.6.

 

The fact is those large groups really f'ck up an area. What about other people who want to climb the Tooth this weekend? Shit outa luck cause they'll be all over it for hours and hours. I think any party larger than 4 is pushing it, and if there's four of you you'd better be fast or you're all assholes.

 

Crowding is an issue, or have you wankers never been down to the valley or Red Rocks?

 

Crowding is a big issue.

 

Crowding is a huge issue.

 

These guys aren't helping.

 

There's any number of nameless crags where they can go and practice their skills. When they have some then they can go in groups of two or three and use them on the tooth. There is no need to tie up decent and popular climbs teaching skills that can be learned at the UW rock and Mt Si, or any number of other areas.

 

I think the fact is that the great 'leaders' have only ever done these climbs, so those are the only ones their comfortable on. They just keep going back again, and again, and since it's always with a new batch they get the ego stroke all over again. But the fact is they are lame and stuck in a rut.

 

And as for your posts: is there some school for internet spray monkeys where you types go to learn how to make lame comebacks. I mean c'mon you can do better than that. Sheesh! Sounds the same the WWWeb over.

 

 

[slothrop]

Dustin_B said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again: People hear what they want to hear, see what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe. The reality of the situation has little affect this.

 

That's some half-assed thinking, there, Dustin. You assert that a person's perception of reality is subjective (whoa, dude! no way!) and then claim that you somehow have access to a superior objective reality? Does being a Mountie grant you omnipotence and wisdom beyond us mere mortals?

 

I climbed the Tooth with many Mounties and watched the leaders act with incredible condescension toward me and their own students. What the fuck? Why would I want to climb with, or even near, such a group? That day my partner was a Mountie, though not climbing with the group. It's the group dynamics and leader-student relationships I have observed among Mountaineers that make me not want to climb in the presence of their groups.

[Alpinfox]

My dear Ursa,

Everyone has to practice mountaineering skills and do conditioning, but most people don't feel compelled to do it in groups of 100.

 

The M's are a bunch of sheep that "overgraze" the mountains and make life miserable for other climbing parties who are unfortunate enough to have not checked the Mountaineer's schedule before planning a trip.

 

Making fun of the mounties may be old, but they deserve it. After all, anyone who didn't outgrow the cub-scout-indoctrination-style of learning outdoor skills by the age of 12 is a jackass. "I earned my walking-on-snow-while-roped merit badge today!"

 

To be a wee-bit constructive rather than just blasting the buggers, I recommend that any Mounties reading this post a "Climbing Partner Wanted" email on this website, get a partner, buy a book or two, practice your skills, and then go do some climbing. Teach yourself. You will learn the lessons more fully, you will probably enjoy it more, you might develop some self-reliance, and you won't be such an obstacle to the enjoyment of others in the mountains.

 

 

 

[Ursa_Eagle]

My problem here is that Alpinfox was making fun of them for practicing. I'm not trying to say that they should be out in large groups and taking over climbs, but don't bash them for practicing in large areas where they don't bother other people. You're a prick and an idiot if you do.

[Alpinfox]

Ursa_Eagle said:

My problem here is that Alpinfox was making fun of them for practicing. I'm not trying to say that they should be out in large groups and taking over climbs, but don't bash them for practicing in large areas where they don't bother other people. You're a prick and an idiot if you do.

 

The tooth isn't a large area. They do bother people.

I am a prick and an idiot.

 

[minx]

Ursa_Eagle said:

My problem here is that Alpinfox was making fun of them for practicing. I'm not trying to say that they should be out in large groups and taking over climbs, but don't bash them for practicing in large areas where they don't bother other people. You're a prick and an idiot if you do.

 

where are these large areas where they don't bother other people? i'm really really curious

[chucK]

closed ski resorts

[cluck]

Newbies need to practice knots and working with a rope team in a safe environment before they head out to do some "real" climbing. That way they have their shit together when it counts. It's better for them to trip over their crampons and fall on a ski slope then on the Cleaver.

[Ursa_Eagle]

chucK said:

closed ski resorts

 

Or large open areas outside of climbing routes (such as the gulleys near the lower parking lot at timberline.)

Can someone please explain to me how this is getting in the way of everyone else climbing, or why learning should be ridiculed?

[erik]

Ursa_Eagle said:

chucK said:

closed ski resorts

 

Or large open areas outside of climbing routes (such as the gulleys near the lower parking lot at timberline.)

Can someone please explain to me how this is getting in the way of everyone else climbing, or why learning should be ridiculed?

 

this is why!

 

[minx]

Ursa_Eagle said:

chucK said:

closed ski resorts

 

Or large open areas outside of climbing routes (such as the gulleys near the lower parking lot at timberline.)

Can someone please explain to me how this is getting in the way of everyone else climbing, or why learning should be ridiculed?

 

b/c this w/e they will be on the tooth and swarming over commonwealth basin, most likely disturbing plenty of smaller parties.

[Sloth_Man]

It was last year in the icicle.

 

I'd taken my 8 yr old son to do the boulder and flake thingy that are down by the road and coveted by the mounties.

 

When I get there I'm immediately ready to turn around and go home, but not knowing where else an 8 year old kid can climb I decide to persevere , even as I'm grumbling aloud walking past the horde. We wiggle onto the boulder in the area that's too hard to do in boots (5.6) and do a little climbing next to a horde of people in boots and gaitors with shorts over their long underwear and gloves (for rappeling?) hanging off their harnesses.

 

When we get bored there I notice a rope has been hanging on the flake thingy unused for some time. So I wander over there and find somebody who looks like a 'leader' (they're easy to spot) I say nicely "are you guys done with that climb, because I'd like to lead it and toprope my son up it". The response is "I don't know let me ask joe" (or whoever). So they go wandering over to the other side of the road to find joe and see if I'll get permission to do the climb. They come back and say 'yeah we're done with it'. So I lead toprope the kid up it and top rope the 5.8 crack next to it. We pull the rope and are getting ready to leave when some 'leader' dude who looks like a fricken cop walks by and say's "I see you got on your route. I heard you talking ealier". To this I have no response other than to look at him with spite.

 

What right do these groups have to put ropes up on things and leave them? What right do they have to decide when I'll be allowed to climb a route that nobody is on? And what right do their fricken testosterone poisoned leaders have pulling attitude on me when they are the ones causing the crowding and the tension, and the whole issue in the first place.

 

I'll tell you this. I'll never treat a group of mounties politely again. I deliberately avoid them now that the kid can do harder stuff, but that doesn't make me hate them any less.

 

The whole attitude that they own the mountains really sucks. I've never met a real climber that had that attitude. Every one is usually laid back and more than ready to give somebody else an opportunity to get on a route.

 

There's simply no defense for the large groups and the 'our crag for the day' attitude. I reaaaaaaaaaally wish these groups would go away.

 

But perhaps the worst thing is they know full well they are despised by the larger climbing community and just carry on. They have no intention of limiting group sizes and finding out of the way areas to climb. And in all my years of climbing these are the only people I've run in to that bum me out. I'll take a horde of boulder'ers, a throng of sport jocks, and gaggle of sandbaggin wall climbers, all drunk and listening to surf punk before I'd chose the company of mounties.

[Ursa_Eagle]

Alpinfox said:

 

After returning to the Alpental parking lot last Sunday after an exploratory jaunt up the western ridge of Snoqualamie Mtn, my partner and I watched hordes of triple-layer-goretex-clad, plastic-boot-wearing wankers coming down from the ski area. They were roped up and ready for any crevasses they might encounter on the ski slopes. They must have been pretty comfortable with the terrain because I didn't see anyone hammering in pickets or putting in deadmen every 50ft. Judging from the size of their packs, they must have been returning from a 6-day siege of Das Toof. I swear this one guy's pack must have weighed 70lbs!

 

I assume that sort of overkill/stupidity could only mean Mounties. Can anyone confirm that there was a Mounty fiasco going on last Sunday up there? So do they take on Das Toof every weekend?

 

 

This is the original post I have a problem with.

1. You saw them coming off the ski area, not on the tooth.

2. You ridicule them for wearing gore-tex and plastic boots: If you're going to be learning basic snow techniques, you won't be moving all day long, so you need to wear more clothes.

3. A 70 lb pack? Did you weight it? Are you sure you didn't exaggerate at all?

4. You made the assumption they are the mounties, what proof do you have?

 

In your defense: you did ask for confirmation, but not before bashing.

 

Now this is my question for you Alpinfox: how many newbies have you taken up and shown how to climb?

[MtnHigh]

Some of you are fucking snobs. Have you always been a skilled climber/outdoorsman? We all got our start somewhere. We all paid our dues and looked stupid on a climb at one time or another.

 

The playbook of the Mountianeers and the Mazamas reads the same. I don't like it when they clog routes or make it unsafe for the climbers near them (kicking down rocks, hogging rap stations, etc). But who cares if they are slogging around a ski area roped up and geared to the teeth. Who gives a shit.

 

 

 

[chucK]

I went to this really popular often-crowded place this one time. We walked through this crowd of people and ended up climbing something they had been climbing on before. They didn't stop us. Later this guy from the group came up and talked to us.

 

F**KIN F**K F**K F**K Can you believe that crap!!!

[Lambone]

Of course, Mountie SEF didn't need help getting off Glacier Peak.

 

goddamit, can't have any fun...sheeeesh

[Alpinfox]

Ursa_Eagle said:

Can someone please explain to me how this is getting in the way of everyone else climbing, or why learning should be ridiculed?

 

Learning shouldn't be ridiculed, despite what that other thread says. However, thinking that the Mountaineer's way of doing things is the only/best way to do them is patently ridiculous. Besides, who wants to learn mountaineering skills from some wannabe scoutmaster?

 

The attitude of most of the Mounties I have met is that if you are a climber in the PNW and haven't taken the Mountaineer's series of courses, then you are unsafe, unskilled, etc. They seem to think that they are the experts who use the "proper" techniques and look down their noses at everyone else. I don't care so much about that, but I do care when a huge group of them starts bumbling all over an area I'm trying to enjoy.

 

They are obnoxious annoying vermin who travel in huge groups and make lots of noise.

 

"ON BELAY!" "OK!" "NO, JOHN, THE PROPER RESPONSE IS 'BELAY ON'!" "OK, BELAY ON!" "NO, JUST SAY 'BELAY ON'!" "BELAY ON"! Etc....

 

McMountaineer

 

 

[Ursa_Eagle]

chucK said:

I went to this really popular often-crowded place this one time. We walked through this crowd of people and ended up climbing something they had been climbing on before. They didn't stop us. Later this guy from the group came up and talked to us.

 

F**KIN F**K F**K F**K Can you believe that crap!!!

 

What bastards! I think we should slam them for not being climbing gods like us!

[specialed]

MtnHigh said:

Some of you are fucking snobs. Have you always been a skilled climber/outdoorsman? We all got our start somewhere. We all paid our dues and looked stupid on a climb at one time or another.

 

The playbook of the Mountianeers and the Mazamas reads the same. I don't like it when they clog routes or make it unsafe for the climbers near them (kicking down rocks, hogging rap stations, etc). But who cares if they are slogging around a ski area roped up and geared to the teeth. Who gives a shit.

 

 

I don't give a shit. More power too them. I'm just being honest and saying if I saw a group of people like Alpinfox described, I would probably make fun of them (and so does everyone else, so quit being hypocritical). Why? because its unnecessary and silly to seige the outdoors in groups and train for glacier climbing at a ski area. Still, they never interfere with my outdoor experiences so all-in-all I really don't care and I wish them all the best.