Index Town Wall TR

[Lambone]

Peter,

 

Yes...we did bring a hammer/pins/and heads on the Zodiac, and I have carried a hammer on green Drag-on.

 

A clean ascent on Zodiac is dependent on lots of fixed gear(which some people may claim is not really clean climbing, but thats another topic). Periodicaly people choose to clean the fixed gear off a route, either by choice, or more unfortunate circumstances. we didn't know what the status of the fixed gear was, and we did'nt want to rap from high up should we get stopped without heads. That is just plain smart. At one point my partner called for the pins halfway through the Nipple pitch. we told him to fuck off and watched him whine and cry for a half hour or so moving off some inverted cam hooks and blue Ball-nutz. But he did it, and it was all goo...but damn he was pissed for a while about that!

 

I brought a hammer (no pins) on GD once for cleaning my stoppers and stuff (to pound on the nut tool). And to reset some of the fixed pins on the second pitch should they be loose, they weren't, so the hammer wasn't used.

 

If the fixed gear on GD, 4 or 5 pins were gone I think you could still easily aid past on cam hooks. There are no heads on the route that are necessary. Although I did see one on the last pitch...why it was placed in a bomber blue alien crack I have no idea.

 

Anyway, I don't care if they pounded pins or not. It was just another thing to bullshit about instead of doing work!

 

BTW, that Knifeblade towards the top of the 3rd pitch is the scaries pine I have ever moved off (that wasn't a rusty RURP). That thing is only in about 3/4 of an inch!

[Peter_Puget]

Ya I guess Zodiac wasn't such a good example. BTW, I pretty much agree with your comments on this thread.

 

PP

[Bronco]

Here's some food for thought for you high and mighty piton police:

 

In the newest Index Guide book it calls for a couple pin placements on the second pitch of Green Dragon. Now, I have seen a single frickin trip report saying it went clean last summer by nightfly, but, I say these guys were prudent at a minimum.

 

and further: Cramer recomends bringing pins on Town Crier and everyone knows it goes clean! Where's the "local ethics" now?

 

BTW: Good one chucK!

[DCramer]

Checking this thread and I feel the urge to clarify a few things Bronco said.

 

 

Green Drag-On

Rating C2/3

I write that the second pitch might be the only one to need a piton or two. Last time I was on this pitch I was trying to free it(done w/ hangs) and a pin was mighty nice. I left one.

 

Town Crier

Rating C2/3

I say that most want to bring a couple of pins just in case.

"Just in case" means in case someone has removed all the fixed pro.

 

I stated that the routes were considered clean climbs and suggested (in the introduction) that if a person feels that a hammered piece is needed, perhaps due to removed fixed pro, then they should leave any pins fixed. This idea of a "hammerless second" seems like a good compromise in the whole debate. Perhaps subject to potential abuse but maybe not.

 

Darryl

 

[Attitude]

Bronco Busted!

[specialed]

DCramer said:

Checking this thread and I feel the urge to clarify a few things Bronco said.

 

 

Green Drag-On

Rating C2/3

I write that the second pitch might be the only one to need a piton or two. Last time I was on this pitch I was trying to free it(done w/ hangs) and a pin was mighty nice. I left one.

 

Town Crier

Rating C2/3

I say that most want to bring a couple of pins just in case.

"Just in case" means in case someone has removed all the fixed pro.

 

I stated that the routes were considered clean climbs and suggested (in the introduction) that if a person feels that a hammered piece is needed, perhaps due to removed fixed pro, then they should leave any pins fixed. This idea of a "hammerless second" seems like a good compromise in the whole debate. Perhaps subject to potential abuse but maybe not.

 

Darryl

 

hammerless is kind of a semantic statement considering on most hammerless routes theres tons of fized shit. I guess "hammerless" must mean don't place new pins.

 

We hammered 2 baby angles on the Zodiak. If we had brought flared blue and green aliens we could have done it clean. I wish we had the aliens and did do it clean too.

[Off_White]

chucK said:

Off_White said:

It's all just trainin' for the bloody greater ranges, no need ter get yor knickers in a twist

trollerific

 

God I hate that condescending crap

 

Its the same as quitting your job, giving away all your money and belongings, and then when you get hungry stealing food from the grocery store and shitting on the counter. When you get caught, defending yourself by saying well I was just training for robbing banks (and they don't have bathrooms in banks)!!!

 

The powerful, compact Chuckfish slips though the shallows. He gingerly takes the bait, moving it about in his sensitive mouth. He seems to understand just what it is, but then he takes the hook and streaks for the horizon! The line just smokes off the reel as Off White ponders how much that slim wisp of monofilament will endure. The chuckfish erupts in one, two, three, four angry faces, and the tropical sun sparkles off his iridescent flanks as he hurls himself into the air in a remarkable display of spirit and power. Smiling to himself, Off White pulls his leatherman from its pouch and cuts the line, nodding his head to the frisky fish and muttering "I was just out for a little sport there laddy."

 

But really, if you have the ambition to get after some remote walls, shouldn't you take the time to try something shorter and more roadside in the kind of conditions you might hit if the weather goes bad? You have to weld some experience to ambition if you want to do walls in places like Alaska, Baffin, or Pakistan. Near death experiences make for great stories, but they're not a lot of fun to go through. While my faux Scottish quip was intended as a troll, I guess I do think that using Index's mini walls as a training ground is pretty valid. I doubt that bCollins & company set out to practice their nailing, and I doubt they'll start an epidemic of adverse conditions ascents. I don't know the route, and I haven't seen their placments, but I'll wager there won't be much in the way of damage. Hopefully, the lessons learned will help prevent bodily damage on more serious endeavors.

[Lambone]

If we had brought flared blue and green aliens we could have done it clean.

 

True dat...

 

Don't they feel like cheating?

 

 

[DCramer]

Speaking of clean climbing, has anyone climbed the new variation on Town Crier? It climbs a direct line from near the top of the chimney pitch to the top of the next pitch. C2?

 

Someone really ought to try the second pitch of Green Drag-On free. The distance between unabashed hanging and really freeing something is pretty close infinite but I think the pitch might go free.

 

When I signed back on I reread the initial post and it appears that they were climbing the first pitch and placed a couple pins near the top. In good conditions the climbing there is pretty trivial, but in icy conditions it would be scary. I am not sure that clean pro would be very easily had in this section in any condition; in summer you would just run it out without comment. The consequences of any piton scarring in this section is close to nonexistent. (In terms of effecting future climbing) I am by no means advocating nailing clean climbs, just throwing my two cents into the mix.

 

Darryl

Edited March 14, 2003 by DCramer

[bcollins]

fleblebleb said:

 

The tone ought to be more like, here's my mistake (heading up in a storm) and here are the results (nailing a clean route) so don't do what I did.

 

 

Interesting and informative posts my friends. Flebs comment about says our feelings about all this. When cleaning the pitch on Tuesday in a comparatively mild but heavy rain, we realized the mistake of using pins where Rob did. Whatever call we made at the beginning of the climb was mute by that point.........Rob was worked, cold, and needed good gear quick and his call was to have pins tagged up. I don't agree with the "I'd use pins but would not mention it on this website" crap. Best to be real and honest about what we do so we can learn from the mistakes of ourselves and others. Lambones beta on Narrow Arrow was right on, now we all know of a relatively dry route to work in crappy weather. That's what this site is all about. So the moral is...........

 

Pick your route and weather carefully to avoid placing pins on a hammerless route.

 

Rob and........

[Lambone]

One thing about that Narrow Arrow route is that it is hard to get an anchor in at the base for soloing, but that thread happened last week...good route, the variation is super fun

[pope]

Lambone said:

One thing about that Narrow Arrow route is that it is hard to get an anchor in at the base for soloing, but that thread happened last week...good route, the variation is super fun

 

In such cases you can build your less-than-ideal anchor, then fill your pack with rocks. Tie some runners around it in a fool-proof web, then clip it as a back-up to your solo-aid anchor(same effect as having an unanchored, 280-lb college ball player belaying you).

 

PP say

Are these guys lame jerks? I don’t know. Maybe yes. Maybe no. If they went up the route intending to place pins for non-emergency use, I say they were in error AND should have chosen a different route. If they brought pins for last resort use in case they got into trouble and placed them because they were in trouble, I say smart planning. I know if I was climbing the Zodiac I would have a couple pins and a hammer in my haulbag – just in case. Lamebone - did you bring a hammer when you did the Zodiac?

 

Well said, Peter. Here's a little secret, everybody: Peter is actually a reasonable and intelligent guy (now and then we see evidence for this).

[Peter_Puget]

But not smart enough to understand why this thread is in the North Cascades section instead of a Crag Climbing section.

 

PP

[Off_White]

There isn't really a crag climbing section, though this might properly belong in Alpine Lakes rather than North Cascades.

[Dru]

index is on the north cascades side of the road, and mt index is on the alpine lakes side

[iain]

dru do you have to piss on every thread?

[Peter_Puget]

I know but Off White would be the perfect moderstor for such a useful and vital forum.

 

PP

[Dru]

iain said:

dru do you have to piss on every thread?

moderate this motherf@cker

[dalius]

Dru's just trying to get to 10,000 as quickly as possible so he can win his cookie.

[iain]

what's with the skis on the pack in your avatar image, that shtuff looks skinnable!

[dalius]

Early season, lots of exposed rock on a windblown ridge. 'Twas much easier to boot, if you must ask.

[specialed]

Lambone said:

If we had brought flared blue and green aliens we could have done it clean.

 

True dat...

 

Don't they feel like cheating?

 

 

I don't know, cause we didn't have any!!

 

Out of curiosity, here's a quick Q about Town Crier: On the third pitch (the one after the chimney) doesn't the topo say your supposed to do some pendelum left or some shit? I just went up some arch then aided left and got back onto the proper line without doing a pendi. Cramer's question about a new variation got me thinking about this.

[Lambone]

Yeh we didn't have any when we did Zod clean either...they hadn't been produced yet...but regular aliens seemed to work fine.

 

The TC variation seems to be the obvious way to go, it's much more direct and avoids that leftward traverse(or pendi) under the roof. we didn't do it, cause my partner wanted to practice a pendulum...I think the rock is kinda crappy on that pitch no matter which way you go. If you take the variation it would be easy to link that short pitch with the chimney pitch.