Cham3s

[jordop]

1. A month ago Jordo orders a pair of Trangos and a pair of Lhotses from Cham3s.com. They bill my Visa the next day, but I don't hear from them or see the boots for three weeks.

 

2. I get impatient and email them asking what's up. The last time I ordered from them I got my shit in ten days. Turns out they only process the order once they get an email from their online banking system telling them the $$ has gone through, and for some reason they didn't this time. They apologize and promise to get the order out the next day. I suggest they refund my shipping $ (another company did this for me when a similar thing happened) but they decline, saying it's not their fault

 

3. I get an email from them a day later saying they no longer have the Lhotses and nobody in Cham does either for the next month, would I still like the Trangos? I tell them they can either send the Trangos with no shipping or go stuff themselves. Once again, they say this was not their fault and they elect to refund my entire order rather than pay for shipping. End result=due to exchange rate changes, I will probably end up paying for the priviledge of being screwed by them

 

a.)  Can they legally charge me $$ without ever knowing whether they have the right sizes or not? They say that this is their standard procedure, what's up with that?

Edited June 4, 2021 by jordop

[fern]

they're French?

[COL._Von_Spanker]

Don't order shit online with foreign companies. Especially boots.

 

If they screw ya there's nothing you can do.

 

 

[Dustin_B]

I don't think you were being a dick in asking for free shipping. I would have done the same thing. Although most companies don't charge your credit card until they ship, I don't know of any legal reason they couldn't charge you as soon as they have your credit card number. I don't see how they could be held liable to pay you back more Euros than they charged you though because the exchange rate sucks now. I think you are screwed on this one.

 

I had a similiar incident with this company. I tired to order a pair of shoes that weren't in stock, gave them my email address but no credit card info. Then they emailed me an invoice!! I don't think I'll buy from that company.

[rbw1966]

It is a violation of some federal statute (unlawful trade practices act?) to charge your account for something without having it in stock and shipping it out. Of course, this only applies within the US. I had a girlfriend who worked for a catalog business and they got hammered bad once for charging someones credit card and then basically forgeting about the order.

 

A similar thing to what you described happened to me once at Mountain Gear. They did me right after I bitched though. I got the entire order free (~150) and free shipping.

 

Caveat emptor.

[jordop]

Yeah, I think Fern put it best. Zut! What was I thinking? Mind you, I did make sure only to order stuff that I had already tried on and that the CO-OP sells I think I'm gonna continue to be a dick on this one until I get all my $$ back.

An ethical web company will never let you order something they don't have IMO and it's just bad stock keeping to not know how much you've got on hand at any given moment.

[fern]

Cham3s may do online sales, but I think they are

primarily a big 3D store (chain of stores) in Chamonix.

Do you speak French? You might get better results if you

can deal with them in their own language.

[jordop]

Funny, they explained that the reason this all happened is because they are just a "small" chain of stores that concentrates on customer service (!) rather than on having an huge stockpile. How many things wrong with that statement?

 

1. If you don't have the stock, what the hell you doin sellin on the net?

2. If you're concentrating on cust. service, where's mine?

3. If you know stock is a problem for you, why are you charging customers before you know if you even have the shit?

 

So I checked with Visa and web merchants CAN charge you before they know if they have the stuff. They also have up to 30 days to refund an international order and can screw the customer with exchange rates

 

I'm just gonna stick to abusing MEC from now on! Full money back on a pair of shoes I didn't like (they hurt, booo hooo!) AFTER they had been resoled. Show me a fromage monkey that'll do that for ya!

[Fromage]

Attend un moment, dude. Moi, JE SUIS FROMAGE, mais je ne suis pas ton "fromage monkey." Et en plus, tres pres de tous les magasins 3S a Chamonix il y a des restos excellents avec la fondue a la raclette. As we say in American, "bitchin'!"

[miller]

jordop,

you aint the first my man. i shop at those stores all the time, in person, and i speak french, and it is still pretty damn chaotic.

 

i try to avoid all of this french bashing crap that, thanks to the current politcal situation, has become so popular - i currently live in france and some of my best friends are french. but i have to admit that they arent the most efficient and organized of people. when shit happens here, the attitude is pretty much "too bad." in north america, you can complain enough or to the right people and you will probably accomplish something. here you will be passed around to a number of different people, none of whom know a damn thing, until youre eventually passed back to the person you asked in the first place.

 

cham3s is a bunch of stores in cham that somehow work together, although i havent exactly figured out how. i asked a friend of mine who works in one of the stores if they were all related and he said yes, but for example, if you go into snell (the largest of the stores) and buy something, it doesnt have anything to do (profit, stock or otherwise) with one of the other smaller stores down the road - however all are affiliated with cham3s. doesnt make any sense to me either.

 

my non-french friends and i have have a saying when things like that happen over here (as they often do) to brush it aside avoid going nuts - "c'est la france".

[jordop]

Postscript:

 

Cham3s refunded my money toaday, but because of exchange rate fluctuations I end up owing $40 CDN for the wonderful experience of doing business with such a fine organization.

 

I then spent a good 30 minutes on the phone with Visa trying to find out if a web merchant can actually charge you money without knowing if they have the merchandise, and whether said company is responsible for the difference in exchange rates once $$ is refunded:

 

1. Visa will not inform its customers of the demands and rules it makes upon its web merchants. Such information can only be obtained once ones' own personal lawyer sues Visa.

 

2. Once you give your Visa ## out over the Internet, you have already entered into agreement with the merchant and if they screw you, well, it's your fault for not inquiring about their practices before you conducted business with them.

 

I know where I'll be crapping on an upcoming trip to Chamonix!

[JayB]

That Sucks Jordop. I almost bought some stuff from that store. The only thing stopping me was a lingering suspicion that if anything happened to my order the only recourse that I would have would be French Customer Service ....

[jordop]

.

Edited June 15, 2021 by jordop

[gapertimmy]

DAMN FRENCH!

[specialed]

rbw1966 said:

It is a violation of some federal statute (unlawful trade practices act?) to charge your account for something without having it in stock and shipping it out. Of course, this only applies within the US. I had a girlfriend who worked for a catalog business and they got hammered bad once for charging someones credit card and then basically forgeting about the order.

 

A similar thing to what you described happened to me once at Mountain Gear. They did me right after I bitched though. I got the entire order free (~150) and free shipping.

 

Caveat emptor.

 

If Cham3 does bidniss in the U.S. they fall under our jurisdiction and can be sued in American courts.

[IceIceBaby]

For me it is always was pulling hair with cham3s. That is why I do not order from them or any European on line company. Also, the exchange is not to my favor and if u look around you will see that u can get the same deal or better from local companies

But then again, I NEVER had a good experience with them but I used to let it go for the substantial saving I was having…Nowadays there is no reason to do this

 

BTW

French and right after them Italian are known for their most horrible costumers service all over Europe if u like service from them don’t pay in full till u satisfy

 

[Zoran]

It's old discussion Jordon started but if you don't mind I will refresh it with my experience.

I was looking for new Dynafit AERO boots for ski touring/free ride and Cham3s had the best deal of 309 Euros ($498CAD) + shipping of 38 Euros + Canadian Customs. I estimated they could be just bellow $600 CAD. At MEC they were expecting them on November 22nd for $728 CAD + PST/GST.

Others didn't have the boots or some have them for 369 Euros + shipping to Canada (like Barrabes but free shipping to USA, etc). After I heard that MEC cancelled AERO order for this season I gambled and ordered the boots size 26. My idea was to try them at MEC and order them on line. I have wide, short feet size 7.5/8 (26) with short toes. MEC technicians recommended AERO or Garmont Adrenalin. Adrenalin is $799 CAD + PST/GST (total is $911 CAD) and I found that sum outrageous.

 

So, I gambled and ordered something I haven’t even try, on November 24th, 2004.

Cham3s billed me on November 25th. That was fast!

 

 

Way points:

 

Mid December: I mailed and ask how they doing and they told me that they expect boots in mid December.

 

End of December: Boots size 26 didn't arrive from Rossignol yet but they will be there soon. Shipping will be in first week of January.

 

Mid January: They apologize because they don't have size 26 and walking mechanism on all boots is very bad.

At the meantime you can still order size 26 on their site?! Even now:

http://www.cham3s.com/gb/default.asp

They offered Dynafit TLT4 Pro TF for 259 Euros ($416 CAD) and free shipping. Price was good but I have Fritschi bindings and solution was bad. Life-Link sells same boot for $524.95 USD ($655CAD) + shipping to Canada (I am not sure?)

They lowered Garmont Adrenalin to 309 Euros and I asked for size 26. They sent me boots by FedEx and I got them in 48 hours. Shipping for free and they put 38 Euros back to my credit card account.

If you don't know Canada doesn't have duties on ski boots and I had only taxes on them ($77.19 CAD).

Final price for Garmont Adrenalin was $573.58 CAD. It was saving of $337 comparing with purchase in MEC.

 

Now it's time for other issues:

They sent BRAND NEW boots but not in original Garmont box and they put BEAL chalk bag as a present (11 Euros/$17CAD). It was nice gesture, but they didn't give me Alpine ISO sole from Garmont?! Adrenalin has exchangeable soles.

So I mailed to them and they sent me this e-mail:

...

"Bonjour,

 

We haven send your soles this afetermoon

Sorry

Best regards"

...

 

I hope this doesn’t mean: "... we haven't send ..." and "...aftermoon..." means next month!

I am joking!

In general, I am happy because weather was bad here (for skiing). I am satisfied with price and I think price at MEC should be the same as I got. This year price of boots at MEC are more than joke. I hope person who order gear make deal with gear manufacturers directly, not through distributors.

Can you imagine yourself sitting in the office, chatting with Dynafit/Millet/Fritschi/Camp, etc. making sweet deals, have your orders sold before it's put on the shelves and being paid for that!?

I forgot to mention that I really like MEC. It's my favourite store.

After I got my boots I moulded my liners there. Service was exceptional. It was really great to talk to Steven about Denali, Foraker, Rainier and Mt Washington (NH) while he was working on the boots.

Great personality!

MEC has the best floor staff you can find around. Period!

Cheers,

Zoran

Edited February 6, 2005 by Zoran

[Zoran]

Soap opera continues!

After detailed description what they missed to send in the package, I got this in my mai today:

http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs16&d=05073&f=Insoles.jpg

Two left insoles!

 

Instead of this:

GARMONT ISO alpine sole

The GARMONT ISO alpine sole conforms to the ISO alpine norm and is compatible with all alpine bindings. The soles fit snugly into place, anchored by 11 Phillips-head screws.

 

It will be interesting to see when all this will be over!?

Z