fleblebleb Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 Right-o, the Marblemount rangers mostly rock. That's not new Quote
COL._Von_Spanker Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 Regarding Locators: With the exception of the variety used on hood, aren't EPIRBS are reserved for air and nautical uses, and they are actvated when a plane crashed or a boat capsizes? When they start emiting a signal all who monitor epirb signals will take notice and start looking or call it in or something. There would have to be a signicant change in the system to implement this in the backcountry world for obvious reasons. I think using those for any other purpose than air and nautical is illegal in the states, but they have something like it in canadia. I may be totally off base here, but that's what I seem to remember from some civil air patrol bs. I could also be talking out of my ass. Quote
iain Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 That used to be true, but the technology has now been developed for land-based use. It has been a test program in alaska for awhile now, and it is now approved for the pacific northwest for further testing. Works basically the same as the EPIRBs system. Will also broadcast the standard ELT signal at 121MHz (or whatever that aeronautical sar freq is) to home in on the transmitter when the searcher gets close. Quote
iain Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 Here's a bit of info on the program in Alaska. It has been quite successful. The units are still prohibitively expensive (it's hard enough to get people to buy avalanche transceivers for an obvious threat) but the price will drop much like GPS technology has. Quote
Gordonb Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 Also, if locater beacons are required for mountain use, what is defined as moutain use? Climbing Rainier looks clearly alpine. What about the hiking the Wonderland trail? Are they going to require rescue insurance and locater beacons for everyone on Tiger Mountain? Quote
fleblebleb Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 Oops, the plot breaks down... Consider that climbers are usually confined to a route and the descent and therefore not hard to locate - perhaps except if they're volcano slogging, which is more like hiking anyway. Hikers on the other hand often ramble all over the place and have to be searched for over areas measured in square miles. Quote
j_b Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 A member of the committee claimed that locator devices were rejected by climbers because they weren't macho. "I mean, how can you go out and wrestle with the wilderness . . . and enjoy it if you're carrying something that is supposed to protect you?" said Representative Jerry Grisham facetiously. I wonder how many climbers Rep. Jerry Grisham knows personally to be so poorly informed (one wonders as well, how many other important bad decisions he makes for us). A locating device changes the relationship between the climber and the climb in a few important ways but it has little to do with machism. First, there is the apparently mondane issue of being declared missing when one is not. I say apparently because it is anything but trivial. Let's say one wishes to wait an extra day at basecamp after the climb for better avalanche conditions (or whatever) on the way home ; what is one supposed to do? Proceed immediately for fear of starting a rescue operation instead of waiting out for safer conditions? this is just but one of many situations of how introducing rescue services as a variable in the climb will affect the decisions that climbers have to make many times during the course of an outing. As we can see, it may force someone to do what goes against good mountaineering sense and potentially result in someone's demise (and I won't talk about affecting our ability to be successful). And second there is the more insidious issue of introducing a false sense of safety. People are most often overdue when the weather is bad, which is not really conducive to flying helos for rescue operations anyway. Cascade climbers know very well that for all intent and purpose one is alone to face danger as soon as one is away from the road by a few miles (especially in winter). Mountain climbers learn quickly that total self-reliance is the only way to make safe decisions and remain in control of a situation. The locator device changes the equation in a powerful way because it leads to think that someone is always there to ultimately save your bacon. This is of course false, and may lead one to make poor decisions (like continuing in the face of worsening weather for example). I am not saying that locator devices are always bad, but I know that I would tend to use one when there is little chance that I'd need it because when in a tight spot I don't want anybody to make the decision for me. If it was possible to use one without strings attached (like being bound tightly to a schedule), then it'd be a different matter of course. Quote
king5news Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 here's the latest -- with names. Two Bellingham men are safe after an extended hike on Big Four mountain east of Granite Falls. Rescuers found Mike Layton and Matt Anderson last night and walked them out. They had failed to return from a climb Wednesday. Quote
Attitude Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 king5news said: here's the latest -- with names. Two Bellingham men are safe after an extended hike on Big Four mountain east of Granite Falls. Rescuers found Mike Layton and Matt Anderson last night and walked them out. They had failed to return from a climb Wednesday. No, actually, here's the latest. With photos. Quote
erik Posted February 28, 2003 Author Posted February 28, 2003 king5news said: here's the latest -- with names. Two Bellingham men are safe after an extended hike on Big Four mountain east of Granite Falls. Rescuers found Mike Layton and Matt Anderson last night and walked them out. They had failed to return from a climb Wednesday. THAT IS THE SICKEST HIKE IN THE WORLD!! DAMN NEAR VERTICAL!!! NICE HYKE GUYS!!! Quote
iain Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 maybe that's why there's so many "hiking" sar operations? you news guys will never appear legit until you get this straight! for pete's sake there's alpine climbing! then there's hiking! Quote
NEWSTIPS Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 iain said: maybe that's why there's so many "hiking" sar operations? you news guys will never appear legit until you get this straight! for pete's sake there's alpine climbing! then there's hiking! I'm not denying that we haven't used the wrong term before, but I hope you guys understand that we're not just randomly choosing our terminology (in spite of how it may appear). When the SAR was launched on Thursday, we specifically asked the public information officer if the "lost" folks were hikers or climbers. She said hikers. So we used that term. I know that hikers and climbers are different...and I've tried to draw that distinction before to the police spokesperson in Snohomish County, but it doesn't seem to be working. Is there a certain elevation at which it can simply be assumed that if someone is at that level, they're definitely climbers instead of hikers? Quote
tomcat Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 Hey NEWSTIPS are you guys hiring? I could be your link between the climbing world and the media world. I will answer all questions regarding climbing and hiking all I ask is that I get to post on cascadeclimbers.com all day while I'm at work and I don't have to work when high pressure is dominating. Talk to your chief and get back to me on this. Quote
NEWSTIPS Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 AlpenTom said: Hey NEWSTIPS are you guys hiring? I could be your link between the climbing world and the media world...all I ask is that I get to post on cascadeclimbers.com all day while I'm at work . Isn't that what I do???? Quote
king5news Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 NEWSTIPS said: AlpenTom said: Hey NEWSTIPS are you guys hiring? I could be your link between the climbing world and the media world...all I ask is that I get to post on cascadeclimbers.com all day while I'm at work . Isn't that what I do???? ha! we've been meaning to talk to you about that.... Quote
allthumbs Posted February 28, 2003 Posted February 28, 2003 king5news said: NEWSTIPS said: AlpenTom said: Hey NEWSTIPS are you guys hiring? I could be your link between the climbing world and the media world...all I ask is that I get to post on cascadeclimbers.com all day while I'm at work . Isn't that what I do???? ha! we've been meaning to talk to you about that.... sounds like too many chiefs and not enuf injuns Quote
iain Posted March 1, 2003 Posted March 1, 2003 sorry NEWSTIPS didn't mean to jump on you then. Looks like the county sheriff (or whoever it was) needs some edumacating too Quote
NEWSTIPS Posted March 1, 2003 Posted March 1, 2003 iain said: sorry NEWSTIPS didn't mean to jump on you then. Looks like the county sheriff (or whoever it was) needs some edumacating too No prob. We've had this problem with her before. I think that she knows even less about hiking/climbing than I do (if that's possible). At least I'm learning the differences now... And you guys can get your licks in to me in person at Pub Club on Tuesday! Quote
Attitude Posted March 1, 2003 Posted March 1, 2003 NEWSTIPS said: And you guys can get your licks in to me in person at Pub Club on Tuesday! Just as long as you give as good as you get. Quote
NEWSTIPS Posted March 1, 2003 Posted March 1, 2003 Attitude said: NEWSTIPS said: And you guys can get your licks in to me in person at Pub Club on Tuesday! Just as long as you give as good as you get. Dang. I knew it was dangerous to use the words "lick", "me", and "pub club" in the same thought. Quote
fleblebleb Posted March 1, 2003 Posted March 1, 2003 NEWSTIPS said: Is there a certain elevation at which it can simply be assumed that if someone is at that level, they're definitely climbers instead of hikers? Err, no. If you can't get up the hill without using your hands as well as your feet then that's technical climbing. There are other forms of mountaineering than technical climbing - but driving up a Colorado fourteener doesn't count as any of them. Under the right circumstances all the WA volcanos can be hiked, i.e. it is possible to walk up and down without any special equipment and without getting hurt. Of course it's also possible to get fubared. Quote
iain Posted March 1, 2003 Posted March 1, 2003 I consider going up the WA volcanoes to be mountaineering, which may involve some climbing on ice or slogging on glacier, or scrambling on rock. But it is all mountaineering in my book. I would not call it hiking. Quote
snoboy Posted March 1, 2003 Posted March 1, 2003 NewsTips Try the library for a book called Freedom of the Hills. It is published by the Mountaineers. It has a good overview of all the different climbing disciplines. Maybe a little overcautious, but it's where a lot of us learned the basics. Well me at least. I can't talk for the rest of the fools ion this board. Or ask polishbob. Quote
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