texplorer Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I have concluded that I can replace my traditional mountaineering ax for an ice tool. I feel the primary use of a traditional ax is for self arrest on lower angle terrain and I have yet to actually fall on a slope in which self arrest is possible. In any case if one were to fall on a slope, I would say an ice tool would work almost as well in most situations. In addition ice tools have many more situations in which they are clearly more useful. Besides perhaps an advantage of weight are there any other uses I have failed to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 i haven't owned a trad axe for about 6 years and i don't miss it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 If it works for you, go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 ice tools are damn heavy. I say get a short light classic axe around 55cm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 If you are doing more general mountaineering than technical ice climbing, a general mountaineering axe is what you want. The straight shaft without any pinky-thing is designed to be inserted into the snow for use as a tent stake or used the same way as a hand-hold on a snow climb. It slots downard between your shoulder straps more easily when you have to make a quick downclimb or rappel, and the curve on the pick is designed for general alpine use rather than more specific to water ice. Length is also an issue: if I was going to climb the Emmons Glacier route on Mount Rainier, I'd much rather have a 70 cm ice axe than an ice tool. Â It is unusual for someone to blow out of their steps or topple over on a snow climb, but it does happen so I wouldn't discount the self arrest use of an axe either for yourself, or for arresting a slide after your partner falls into a crevasse on a glacier. Â I often use an alpine axe for water ice climbing and, believe it or not, it works fairly well. I have also used the ice-tool on alpine snow climbs, and it also works fairly well. The right tool for you depends on what you think you are going to do more of, or what you want to do more of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted February 20, 2003 Author Share Posted February 20, 2003 I admit that the a 55-60 aluminum shafted job would probably be better for a short glacier crosssing (although I would rather have aluminum crampons and no ax) and any of those lamo slopes that people think are fun to ski down. My point, I guess was that once you advance past the slog routes and start getting into steeper rock/ice that an ice tool although a pound or so heavier would be immensely more useful and would save you from taking a mtneering ax AND a tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 take a quark, they're light. ok maybe 600gm isnt as light as a 400cm aluminum axe but... aside from not being able to probe for crevasses there is no disadvantage. i just make my partner go first anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 one thing a 70cm axe is good for is hacking your way thru devils club. if you sharpen up the adze good you can hack those fuckers off clean with a golf type swing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 For "steeper rock/ice" you may be right. But rather than taking one tool that is not useful for glacier travel and, if it has a bent shaft, is clumsy when placing pitons (it sounds as if you are thinking about a single tool), don't completely discount the possibility of going "old school" and taking an alpine hammer and ice axe. With such a combination, you are all set to clean grass-choked cracks, hammer away at whatever you want, climb at least small amounts of vertical ice, and probe the edges of suspect snowbridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 This can be done w/a mountaineering axe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 Maybe so, but at a closer inspection of the pic I detect a slight recurve on the pick. Busted!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Dru said: one thing a 70cm axe is good for is hacking your way thru devils club. if you sharpen up the adze good you can hack those fuckers off clean with a golf type swing. Â LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 iain, where is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 haha! I was hoping that prophet wouldn't be noticed but nevertheless I think you'd agree that snow is classic pick territory too. not saying an ice tool isn't nice to have at all, but I've enjoyed a 55cm ushba axe at 335g for some climbs like the reid and sandy hw's, both quite moderate but I've seen ice tools used on there before. And it self-arrests well too, which I have used before. Prob with the general picks are the release, which can waste a lot energy prying out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 e. face of Alberta (I think dru used it to make a point here somewhere before too, he'll probably beat me to this post ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluck Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Mountaineering axe is way cheaper. Also a more versatile mountaineering tool (tent stake, belay anchor, etc). Not so good on waterfall ice though......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 I've got one of the BD "classic" picks without the recurve that I use for stuff like you're talking about. Makes a good hybrid tool for snow routes with short, icy steps, etc. Not sure if BD still sells these picks though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_K Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 I've been using a 60 cm DMM Alpine Raptor as an inbetween tool. You can interchange a mountaineering and technical pick. So far I've been happy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Paul_K said: I've been using a 60 cm DMM Alpine Raptor as an inbetween tool. You can interchange a mountaineering and technical pick. So far I've been happy with it. Â That's been my weapon of choice for the last 2 years, too. I'm totally happy with it. Outdoor n More carries the interchangeable picks for it, in the event you can't get to MEC for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialed Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 A good "compromise" tool like that is probably the best way to go. Isn't that what they used to call a piolet axe? Essentially a short mountaineering axe. A classic mountaineering axe is totally versatile though and can be used to climb steeper snow and ice as well as hack through brush, decent for belays, used as a tent stake, and used for balance on talus, etc. And a technical tool is not as good for self arrest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj221 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Modern ice tools will deprive you of those old school boot-ax belays. They also suck for probing snow but are better than nothing. Having said that I use my modern tools for everything I do. But I live on the East Coast where a glacier is only a concept and Mt. Washington is the highest peak you have to heft the extra weight up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro Mountain Sports Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Some of you might like the Stubai Hornet axe for mountaineering use. The Hornet is availible with adze or hammer, has a technical pick and a modest clearence bend in the shaft, no pinky thingy. Price is $83.95 and includes a leash. Weight is 1lb 6oz. There is a picture on our website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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