Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 iain said: nice post dfa! good info Thanks! Most of the mental and endurance stuff was gleaned from Martin Tull, who used to manage the PRG. While public opinion of Martin varied wildly, he was certainly a talented climber, and he was alalytical as fuck, which perhaps is a good strategy in itself. Analyticalasfuckness (fern's onto something with this making up words bidness!). Picking apart and examining every element of a route or a move or whatever, and exploring every possible solution can help you figure out what is important and WHY moving your foot this way or that helps you out, which can cut out a lot of trial and error down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Maybe that's why I agree with you DFA. I too learned the dark art of sport climbing from Martin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted February 20, 2003 Author Share Posted February 20, 2003 fern said: I think your three issues are related jk, and the key one is the footwork. Like, fix the footwork and your climbing will be less effortful (hah new word ) and so you won't tax your endurance so you can hang on longer while you figure out the right sequence and SEND!! This brings to mind the possibility that men and women might approach the way they climb, and learn to climb, a bit differently. Men are, in general, stronger than women, so it would be logical to assume they rely on that -- especially when learning. I don't know how many men I've seen "muscle" their way up something. Like RuMR said, the cure to bad footwork is to pull harder with your arms! But, there is a limit to how far strength alone will get you, and I think that is where I am at. I will get in touch with my feminine side, improve my footwork, and hope this will set me on the path to becoming a true hardman -- oh, the irony! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Hey JK... Did you read my last post? I think that'll explain why i was only half joking when i said "pull harder"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 texplorer said: Maybe that's why I agree with you DFA. I too learned the dark art of sport climbing from Martin. Fortunately, DFA has left behind certain Martin-learned traits such as breathing super-loudly, and working on doing lockoffs up the lead wall on the two-finger pockets with a weight belt on while breathing super-loudly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 So your saying the student has become the master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 RuMR said: Hey JK... Did you read my last post? I think that'll explain why i was only half joking when i said "pull harder"... Yeah, I read it, but not until after I posted. Of course I took your comment as half joking, but I think the other half has some validity as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Nah. Just that the student has stopped drawing attention to himself with superfluous dweebery. For the most part at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 So...since the great doctor is an avowed steep climbing sport enthusiast...I'm wondering if he knows the definition of a slab route? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Fuckin' Barbecue the Pope! You mean, like, a redpoint-level slab route? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 No...this comes from my old stomping grounds at the New River Gorge... Slab route: 1.) A route that doesn't require your stomach to hold your feet on. 2.) A route where your feet are always below your hands and head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Nice. Those are slab parameters the Doctor could live with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 (edited) Another definition would be 3.) Anything where you fall off and hit nothing but air (I guess that would be a non-slab) Or. Anything Pope and Dwayner are climbing (just kidding, I think)... Edited February 21, 2003 by RuMR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 Dru said: try climbing barefoot, or in street shoes, for a while. with slippery feet, you'll really have to work your footwork to stay on the holds. then when you go back to the rock slippers, it seems real easy to pimp on a dime edge or whatever. I've been climbing plastic in my old super-nonsensitive board-lasted shoes to save wear on my "real" shoes. Nice to know that when I put the good shoes on I will climb like a god! Climbing barefoot hurts like hell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dru Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 i have found climbing plastic, to be good for strength, but bad for technique...squamish technique anyways. The biggest holds at Squamish would be jibs in a gym. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fern Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Ray Jardine had an interesting method back when he was freeing those hard cracks. He practiced laybacking as a safety or rest technique. His reasoning was that laybacking and jamming require different sets of muscles, so if his laybacking was wicked strong he could swing out of a technical jam crack into the layback to cop a rest ... maybe not a global rest, but at least ease the pressure on the bizness muscles he needed to get up the climb. Of course this will not work on the 99% of climbs in the world that are overhanging clip-ups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 I have found climbing plastic to be a poor substitute for the real thing, but better than no substitute at all... Damn rain! I fear that when I get on real routes I will be looking for the tape and continually asking my belayer if the hold I'm about to put my foot on is actually on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distel32 Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 iain said: Bringing a second tool when not needed. Using a second tool when not needed. chalking up too often. letting a grade convince me I can't do the moves letting a grade convince me it should be a cakewalk not keeping my heel pressured on steep skinning Grades are a huge barrier!! Footwork idea: this is of course the lamest tip that I'm sure everyone already does, but just traverse using jibs at the gym. or climb routes with ok holds but only using jibs. practice dropknees! the best move ever.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 The layback as rest... I can see how that might work. I find laybacking to be the most strenuous and tricky form of climbing. Feet too high, and it's way harder than it ought to be; feet to low, and all of a sudden POP! But it might seem different if I wanted to do it instead of had to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 jkrueger said: You know that old saying "you're only as strong as your weakest link?" Well, I think that applies to climbing as well. So, in an effort to be ready for the spring climbing season, I have been analyzing my climbing to pinpoint my weakest links. So far, what I have come up with are footwork, endurance, and reading a route. So, if you have any recommendations, strategies, tips, or comments I'd love to hear 'em! Of course, there is no need to limit the discussion to the weaknesses mentioned above, as everyone struggles with different aspects of their own climbing ability... I think footwork and route reading will come naturally as you log in the miles, but both are way easier if you got the guns! I think some excellent work would be to pick out some Vsomething boulder problems that are a couple of grades easier than you can max out at, without having any stopper moves, maybe ten moves long. Do the route, drop and rest for 1 minute, do again, rest 1 min, etc, repeat 4 times, and if you are getting REALLY close to failure on the 4th rep, you picked the proper difficulty. Make sure you time your rest period though, and stick to it. No cheating on the last couple of sets, cuz it really starts to suck and hurt! After your 4th rep, rest until completely recovered, maybe 15 minutes or more, and repeat the cycle again. Try to do 3 sets on the same route, which would equal 120 moves. You might not get there with the first couple of workouts. If you do this workout 2 or 3 times a week, with proper recovery between workouts, I promise your onsite level will go up by 1 or 2 letter grades in 6 weeks (depending what level you're climbing at now). Make sure you pick something steep enough to work out your core strength-between 30 and 50 degrees, and technical enough (no big feet) to force you to use proper form. There are so many other things one can do. But the above really works, and it works fast! It builds you right where most hard sport-climbing gets you: power-endurance. Personally I've never found long easy laps lasting 10 or 20 minutes to be of any value....Maybe when you're recovering from injury, but not for building strength or endurance (unless the intensity builds way high). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoboy Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 fern said:Also looking focusedly (hah another new word ) on my foot while putting weight on it. These are my secrets to cracking the 5.6 barrier. This is one of the biggest things that helped for me. My friend Eric told me to "Look at the hold until your foot is on it." He meant all the way on it - solid and ready to take weight. I was guilty of looking at the hold but looking away as soon as my toe touched the rock. Then I would scrape onto the hold. Kinda like you would in the gym. It especially helped with my slab climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 sexual_chocolate said: Personally I've never found long easy laps lasting 10 or 20 minutes to be of any value....Maybe when you're recovering from injury, but not for building strength or endurance (unless the intensity builds way high). Hey, thissiz a good point that DFA overlooked. While you should of course start easy to get into the swing of doing laps, it doesn't really do you any good or teach you to milk your reserves unless you're having to work at it. You'll find, too, that once you get the hang of it, you can pretty much climb up and down on easy stuff more or less indefinitely. So be sure to keep pushing yourself. As you're mixing in harder stuff, try to add in routes that are just a couple letter grades below your redpoint level, so that you're working on linking moves that are near your limit. This will come in handy, as you'll find as you're advancing through the grades (and that's really what it's all about, right? ) that each progressive level of difficulty involves stringing together stacks of moves of your previous level of difficulty interspersed with evil cruxes. Logically, then, if you're working on breaking into 5.11s, you ought to be able to battle out plenty of mid-hard 5.10 moves to ensure success. Now quit geeking on the internet and go train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrueger Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 What are some strategies for milking reserves? It seems footwork would help, in that it saves energy by keeping your weight off your arms and saves time because you don't have to put your foot back on after it slips off six times. I'm sure speed would help (I think I tend to climb too slow), but not at the expense of good form. And not putting a death-grip on every hold... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Basically when you get to a "good" hold or stance really rest up. If that means standing there for a long time while your belayer bitches at you then so be it. One thing to remember however is that there is a point of diminishing returns. If you have cranked on a series of small pockets, crimpers, etc maybe resting on an OK hold will allow some depumpification but only to a point and then you should just head on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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