sk Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 It is intresting after over 200 yrs how Washington's farwell address still affects the pysche of the american people. Isolatinism and appeasment have goten the US and the world in far more trouble than a few years of peace is worth. Anyone remember Czechasolvkia? It will be my friends and comrades, my brothers, who will be storming through the desert. I respect and value your right to protest. However, don't put on a circus, make some kind of alternative plan. A circus just dishonors our fallen soldiers. I want to remind you that these two oceans which have protected and isolated us for our entire history, do not protect us anymore. I don't see an invading army sailing into the Pugent Sound, but we are the target of many groups. I say groups instead of nations, because they have no nation, no law, no UN deligation. Talk can get you only so far. Appeasment can only get you so far. Isolationism will only get you sucker punched. Sometimes to make Peace you have to prepare for War. P.S. For anyone who wonders what my auto-sig means: "To Free the Oppressed." It is the motto of the Special Forces and it says what we stand for. Well said Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 "To Free the Oppressed." It is the motto of the Special Forces and it says what we stand for. I would think you would just stand for whatever the administration who activates you stands for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted February 13, 2003 Author Share Posted February 13, 2003 Ouch. The painful truth. I hate the consequences of what iain posted above, but how can anyone argue with it? Anyone in the military is simply the current administration's tool for implementing their version of foreign (and domestic) policy. This can't be argued. I have respect for individuals whose ideals lead them to service in the armed forces (depending on the ideals!), but I personally don't want to be ANY administration's tool. Plus, almost every military situation has a non-military solution, I believe. Violence only seems to beget violence, and I'd rather leave this earth having done my best to promote peace and understanding, instead of militarism and nationalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Mtnrgr- I agree with absolutely everthing you just stated. I don't think it is yet time to go to war, though. But you don't have all the facts, do you Matt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 I would think you would just stand for whatever the administration who activates you stands for. They swear an oath to the Constitution, not the President, if I'm not mistaken. It shows you don't have a clue about the military community, Iain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 But you don't have all the facts, do you Matt? If I had all the facts, I bet I would be LESS likely to support the current war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 But you don't have all the facts, do you Matt? If I had all the facts, I bet I would be LESS likely to support the current war. You can't say that for sure, since you don't know the nature of intelligence currently under consideration by the President, the JCS, Rumsfeld, and Congress. You really can't say what you would do because you don't have the overall picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 You can't say that for sure, since you don't know the nature of intelligence currently under consideration by the President, the JCS, Rumsfeld, and Congress. You really can't say what you would do because you don't have the overall picture. You are correct. I can only speculate what the facts may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 You are correct. I can only speculate what the facts may be. I think we are all in the same position, Matt. I can say I support a war based on the info I have, but I don't necessarily believe that I have been given all the data. I don't believe that the media has done its all to get us good credible information on the true situation. Plus, there is a good amount of political and strategic obfuscation going on as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregm Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 I would think you would just stand for whatever the administration who activates you stands for. They swear an oath to the Constitution, not the President, if I'm not mistaken. It shows you don't have a clue about the military community, Iain. "I, stateyourname, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 It shows you don't have a clue about the military community, Iain. Perhaps if you could avoid the pointless personal attacks in virtually every post I would pay more attention to your bluster. Since you are not in the military community, I really don't care either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 I would think you would just stand for whatever the administration who activates you stands for. They swear an oath to the Constitution, not the President, if I'm not mistaken. It shows you don't have a clue about the military community, Iain. I don't reckon that one flies too well in a military court: I disobeyed my commander in chief because I thought it was contrary to the Constitution of the United States. Fact is, the military is supposed to do what their told, and its only in the highest echelon that you get to debate policy. Now, I fully understand that combat units can't be governed by committee, and good of the whole can be utterly dependent on instant action and obediance without reflection, but by the same token that doesn't make the rank and file a good critic of foreign policy. And if your life is on the line, you might as well go ahead and completely believe in your mission, because every edge is gonna count. No offense Glacierdog, you'll do what you've gotta do, and I only wish you well and hope you come out the other side of whatever comes down. Caveat: Like the majority of people on this board, I too am not in the military community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 It shows you don't have a clue about the military community, Iain. Perhaps if you could avoid the pointless personal attacks in virtually every post I would pay more attention to your bluster. Since you are not in the military community, I really don't care either way. That wasn't really meant as an insult, Iain. I should have said it another way; such as, you are incorrect in your assertion. No, I am not in the military community, but I know plenty of those who are and I study military history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 I would think you would just stand for whatever the administration who activates you stands for. They swear an oath to the Constitution, not the President, if I'm not mistaken. It shows you don't have a clue about the military community, Iain. It was already mentioned by Off White, but I thought I'd chime in. Nice idealism, greg, but many of our recent "war" engagements have had rather dubiuous constitutional underpinnings. Only the "obey all orders" section really speaks to reality. Remember: As a member of the military, you are a tool for the political establishment, plain and simple. The president, who is often elected by a majority vote, holds the keys to your future. Remember this when thinking about enlisting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 But I do drift, don't I? "1,2,3,4, We don't want your fucking war! 1, 2,3,4, we don't want your fucking war!" Or maybe "Hey hey ho ho, little shrub has got to go! Hey hey ho ho, little shrub has got to go!" Now doesn't that get you all excited?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacierdog Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 I just got so excited, I think I pee'd myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Yeah Fairweather and you represent the voice of the slack jawed motherfucker Seriously your too much in favor of war. I don't plan on marching for peace, but like a lot of people I have mixed feelings about war with Iraq. We aren't going to war with North Korea, but they could hit Fircrest with a nuclear missile. Hey Alpine K, Show me the post where I advocated going to war with Iraq! As usual, you jump to (clueless) conclusions. I HAVE advocated assasinating Saddam....not the same thing as war. I have expressed my disdain for the "anti-war" movement. Show me where I supported a war in Iraq. Then get a grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted February 14, 2003 Author Share Posted February 14, 2003 Hey fairweather, I like how you're coming along with this anti-war stuff. See ya Saturday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattp Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Yo Fairweather: Down boy. I could be wrong, but I believe you have propounded some pretty heavy assertions about the motives and agenda of the gutless liberals on this bulletin board who want to deprive you of your liberty. If Alpine K is wrong about your position on the War, tell us about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayner Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 "Sex-cocoa" or whatever says: "But I'm not gonna sit here with a sanctimonious tone lecture to others about their chosen form of protest. " Leave that to me, Sparky. It's about time that someone gives some of these folks the "emperor has no clothes" lecture. Take them aside and say, the '60's are over and a lot of the classic protest forms have long-standing negative baggage with them. (and they can take or leave the advice I offer, obviously). A million serious people making a stand is far more impressive than a million clowns putting on a circus. Save the costumes for the gay pride parades. Someone mentioned MLKing in a related post. Did the civil rights demonstrators make a carnival out of their protests? Hardly. They were darn serious, and people took notice. 'nuff said, cocoa. so, are you still of the opinion that I need "counseling" because I disagree with you? shalom, Dwayner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Nice idealism, greg, but many of our recent "war" engagements have had rather dubiuous constitutional underpinnings. Not true, the President has the authority to commit troops for up to 60 days before going before Congress. How is that dubious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacierdog Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 It is intresting after over 200 yrs how Washington's farwell address still affects the pysche of the american people. Isolatinism and appeasment have goten the US and the world in far more trouble than a few years of peace is worth. Anyone remember Czechasolvkia? It will be my friends and comrades, my brothers, who will be storming through the desert. I respect and value your right to protest. However, don't put on a circus, make some kind of alternative plan. A circus just dishonors our fallen soldiers. I want to remind you that these two oceans which have protected and isolated us for our entire history, do not protect us anymore. I don't see an invading army sailing into the Pugent Sound, but we are the target of many groups. I say groups instead of nations, because they have no nation, no law, no UN deligation. Talk can get you only so far. Appeasment can only get you so far. Isolationism will only get you sucker punched. Sometimes to make Peace you have to prepare for War. P.S. For anyone who wonders what my auto-sig means: "To Free the Oppressed." It is the motto of the Special Forces and it says what we stand for. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Dwayner, The Soviet communists used to provide "counseling" for those who dared disagree with their positions as well. As SexChoc has expressed sympathies with the Marxist model in past posts, it should not be surprising that he prescribes "counseling" to those with whom he disagrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glacierdog Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Yeah, "counsiling," see? A little session with Dr. Blowtorch and Nurse Rusty Pliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalX Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Greg makes a good point. We have been given very little information on Iraq. Why are we going to attack? Because he *might* have chemical weapons? Because he might use them? Because he oppresses his citizens? If that's our logic, there are a whole bunch of other countries that we should be going afetr, including our little buddy after the 9/11 attacks Pakistan, who has been terrorizing India for the last several years, supporting terrorism against India AND posses nuclear weapons. Even Powell's speech wasn't a resounding success (and I dig Powell...probably the only republican I like) as the UN was not convinced that we should attack. Im just not sure what we're trying to accomplish. The administration has gone back and forth on whether or not Iraq is linked to Al Qeida and shown very little of what it could be. And even today we're not helping the Kurds. As far as the protests are concerned, i'm all about the people showing their dislike of war, but as someone stated earlier, point out some solutions. And you can't just say "anything non-violent". Of course nobody is FOR war just for war's sake. This country does not put up with death in war anymore so you can bet as soon as some bodies start coming home in bags that Bush's approval rating will drop into the toilet. --eternal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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