Zenolith

re: brittney. is it just me or did her boobs get bigger again? talk about being in the bullring...that girl is sitting on a dock with her bra falling off and she wants us to think she is a virgin?

wy'east and southside are the most skiable lines from near the summit, but leutholds and cooper spur are doable in the right conditions if you are good enough. in my opinion sunshine is skiable from the summit ridge but it is continuously exposed on the upper pitches. if that route is skied it is rare. does anyone know if it has been?

photos are now fixed. thx bballer for pointing out my blunder.

craig, you had trouble locating the scene in the photo b/c you went to the wrong mountain. yocum is on mt hood.

here is a link to the web page TR. http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/zenolith/Broken_Top_2002.html

you the shit man.

if you've done the south side route you can think of the whole sunshine as the s. side route from the hogs back up. in late august it was dry glacier and easy routefinding and then we went up the far right of the elliott glacier headwall to the left of the real difficulties. this is a more interesting option. we had two tools and climbed unroped up some long 45-50* ice gullies with a few vertical steps of rotten water ice. i think it is more fun in late season (never done it earlier) since it is icy rather than snowy. i would do it again.

i can't recomend any route on that mountain after it warms up from experience. we were there for three days last weekend and it was really nice weather, climbing and the skiing was some of the best i've done. we did not summit. I think it is possible to get to the summit right now but only if you don't use a crater route. the 9,11 and high noon routes would go but there was windslab and cornice danger (read; tunnel or climb over it) and we were not willing to risk it. We did reach the crater rim by the easy route (via a notch at climber's 2:00), but when we looked over I saw that the whole side was corniced and that we would have to rap over (freehanging for ~100 feet onto steep, hard snow) to even see the rest of the route. the part of the route i could see looked like a very steep and exposed traverse to an all-snow and ice climb reaching over 60* and exposed to cornices as well. from the crater high noon would be the best option in my opinion b/c i would rather climb steep snow and ice (and then traverse a mini yokum!!) than slog thru windslab under a cornice. i took a lot of photos and will email them to anyone who asks as soon as i get them scanned.

Here's something actually related to Will's original post. Chewing Up a Fragile Land February 21, 2002 By TERRY TEMPEST WILLIAMS CASTLE VALLEY, Utah -- For many Americans, the Bushadministration energy plan, developed by Vice PresidentDick Cheney with the help of a task force whosedeliberations he will not reveal, is an abstraction atbest, and at worst a secret. Here in the redrock desert ofsouthern Utah, it is literally an earth-shaking reality. Oil and gas exploration is going on in the form of seismictests - conducted with what are called thumper trucks - insensitive wildlands adjacent to Arches and CanyonlandsNational Parks. Last Sunday, with a group of friends alldeeply concerned about the fate of this landscape, one ofAmerica's most treasured, I witnessed the destructive powerof the thumper trucks on the fragile desert. We had a Bureau of Land Management map showing theterritory leased by Eclipse Exploration of Denver - 23,000acres elevated in priority for exploration and drillingunder the Bush energy plan. We oriented ourselves from atopthe sandstone cliffs above the Colorado River that overlookthis pristine country of Entrada sandstone formations,pinyon and juniper forests, and fragile alkaline desert. Itis one of the proposed preserves in America's RedrockWilderness bill now before Congress - and with significantsupport. If this bill were law, it would protect theselands from new leases for oil drilling and exploration. Lines drawn on the map marked the physical corridors wherefour 50,000-pound trucks would crawl cross-country, tampingthe desert for clues as to where oil might be found. As weset out to look for the trucks, our task was simplified bya helicopter flying overhead with a long cable carryingwhat appeared to be an enormous doughnut. It was a tire. Wewatched where it was dropped and hiked to the work site. A thumper truck was stuck, tilted on its side, lodgedprecariously in the steep banks of a wash. Its rear lefttire, as tall as the man staring at it, was not only flatbut torn off its axle by an unseen boulder. Parked nearbywas a white truck - the "smart box" where WesternGeco, thecompany contracted to do this preliminary work, records andcompiles all the seismic information. Three other thumper trucks were at work about half a mileahead. Behind them was pulverized earth: a 15-foot swath ofbeaten down and broken junipers, blackbrush, rabbitbrush,squawbush and cliffrose. The delicate desert crust thatholds the red sand in place from wind and erosion, known ascryptobiotic soil, was obliterated. Replacing it, ineffect, was a newly crushed road. In January Jayne Belnap, a United States Geological Surveyexpert on soil damage, submitted an official comment letterto the Bureau of Land Management about the fragility ofdesert crusts, warning it could take from 50 to 300 yearsfor the dry soil to recover from the damage incurred byheavy equipment. Up close, the thumper trucks creeping across the desert,following a path of fluorescent pink ribbons, looked likegigantic insects, gnawing and clawing, articulating rightand left as they balanced themselves across the ruggedterrain. Fumes from hydraulic fluid stung our eyes, and thenoise threatened to blow out human eardrums. The men in thetrucks were reading newspapers as the operation proceeded,computerized and routine. At the designated stops, each truck in the convoy lowered asteel plate onto the desert, clamped tight, applied some64,000 pounds of pressure against the sand and then sent ajolt of seismic waves below to record density. The groundwent into a seizure. Sand flew and smoke obscured thehorizon where Skyline Arch and Sand Dune Arch - the Windowssection of Arches National Park - stand. We were only fourmiles from Delicate Arch, the redrock icon where a fewweeks ago a Ute elder uttered prayers and passed the WinterOlympics torch to his granddaughter in the name of goodwill and peace. When the steel plate lifted, the oncesupple red sand had turned to concrete. The trucks moved forward, post to post, now scrapingsandstone with the chains around their tires, headingstraight for a spring where 100-year-old cottonwood treesprovided a rare canopy of shade alongside a creek. We ranahead, not believing the trucks would force a road intothis fragile desert oasis, but they did, gunning the gas,breaking down stands of squawbush and willows and rippingright on through the cottonwood shoots. There was nothingwe could do but watch. This was our country's new energyplan, translated into action. A manager from the Bureau of Land Management suddenlyappeared, and I felt a flash of relief, thinking he hadcome to stop this sacrifice of wild country that might atbest yield a tiny fraction of the supply of fuel thisoil-hungry nation uses every year. He was perturbed, butnot by the trucks plowing through the cottonwood wash. Hehad come to monitor us - the public, walking on publiclands. The bureau had received a call, he told us, sayingthat we might be harassing the operation, putting theproject at risk. I should not have been surprised. I knew that a memorandumsent by the Bureau of Land Management to field offices onJan. 4 had said that when an oil and gas parcel is leasedfor exploration and drilling, or when an application forpermission to drill comes in the door, this work must bethe No. 1 priority. We asked the land manager as politely as possible if he hadthe jurisdiction to redirect the thumper trucks from thisriverbed to an already established seismic road to thesouth. "We've got the discretion to make them do that," hesaid. "But, in the end, it's all a trade-off. We've chosento just accept the project as they give it to us." Hepaused. "You can see the pink ribbons on the trees," hesaid. "They've had it all staked out since September."

i don't know. once the snow is that melted out there is no reason to climb that chosspile from todd lake.

that guy was messing with natural selection. if i was there i would've beat him up too.

rodent dog, all that smog down there is shrinking your brain. get yourself to cleaner air and then resume normal cognition.

yes, it is impressive isn't it! glad you were all amused. for someone like me who likes puns and those things that read the same forward and reverseward, it is a special day. for those who think it's meaningless in the grander scheme, touche, but then, so are you.

...will be seen if you look at your digital watch at 20:02 today. noone has seen such a thing for 1001 years and noone will ever see anything like it again. whoever hits their 2002nd post st that moment, or smokes their 2002nd bongload of the day gets a special prize (from erik). 20:02 20/02 2002

tex, i heartily urinate on you, your whole state, and the politicians you produce from a great height. i hope you come back soon and be my rope gun. i'm in, but i must say that i'd rather ski than climb at flagstone any day. hmmm, maybe i'll go snag the first descent of hydrotube!!

Anyone been out there lately and know how the 11 o or high noon are? Is all the rock covered? Anyone want to meet us there? We're going to ski the crater if the climbing isn't good.

I think we should vote on the featured member. And have a debate between the finalists.

Republicans announced today that they are changing their emblem from an elephant to a condom because it more clearly reflects their party's political stance. A condom stands up to inflation, halts production, discourages cooperation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Osama bin Laden found a bottle on the beach and picked it up. Suddenly, a female genie rose from the bottle and with a smile said, "Master, may I grant you one wish?" "Infidel, don't you know who I am? I need nothing from a lowly woman," barked bin Laden. The genie pleaded, "But master, I must grant you a wish or I will be returned to this bottle forever." Osama thought a moment. Then, grumbling about the inconvenience of it all, he relented. "OK, OK, I want wake up with three white, American women in my bed in the morning. I have plans for them." Giving the genie a cold glare, he growled, "Now, be gone!" The genie, annoyed, said "So be it!" and disappeared back into the bottle. The next morning, Bin Laden woke up in bed with Lorena Bobbitt, Tonya Harding, and Hillary Clinton. His penis was gone, his leg was broken and he had no health insurance.

A bit more background that will horrify anyone with the patience to read it. I have sources for all of the claims I am about to make. Just ask. The Fee Demo program is being implemented jointly by the USFS and the American Recreation Coalition (ARC). Who are they? RV clubs, RV dealers, boating clubs and dealers, etc, here's a partial list; Bass ProShopsBerkley Inc.BOAT/U.S.Brunswick CorporationThe Coleman CompanyDelaware North CompaniesThe Dial CorpFleetwood EnterprisesForever Living ProductsGaylord Entertainment CompanyHarley-Davidson, Inc.Huffy CorporationJohnson Worldwide AssociatesKOAL.L. BeanOutboard Marine CorporationOutdoor Resorts of AmericaREI<-write and tell them they suck!!Snowbird Ski and Summer ResortTimes Mirror MagazinesWalt Disney Attractions What are these corporations interests in public lands? The ARC and USFS have signed a contract that, in part, establishes the "Challenger Cost-Share Agreement", which is "a non-profit organization that strives to catalyze public/private partnerships to enhance and protect outdoor recreational opportunities and the resources upon which such experiences take place." I don't see climbers represented on that list, but we are paying a disproportionate amount of the cost for this program. We tend to recreate in Wilderness Areas but these corporations that are helping the USFS to charge us to enter these WAs are going to want something eventually. If they are paying the USFS's bills they are going to get it. Congress is being asked to consider rewriting the endangered species act and the wilderness act has no more authority that the ESA. That, partially, is why Wild Wilderness calls the Fee Demo program the thin edge of the wedge that is driving the Disenyfication of public lands.

quote: Originally posted by specialed: I heard they can't really ticket you unless they catch you in person. So its not a real ticket unless they catch you returning to your car at the trailhead. Is that true? No, that's not true. Here's why, "There is a lot of case law on this subject now and it provides precedent for judges to rule against any exception that requires the LEO to prove that you were recreating. The judge jhamaker refers to said that **he didn't think the intent of the language was to require the LEO to establish proof** (Although in that same case "Govt. vs Siart" the LEO used a dash-mounted video camera to record the lic. plate and the ensuing interaction between the officer, driver and her passenger who were returning to their car). That means that the exceptions (eg. work, religious observance, etc) are placed under the discretionary powers of the LEOs themselves."

Its true that if you park >1/4 mile from a sign you can't be cited, but they solve that by signing every parkable space near a TH. There is a lot of case law on this subject now and it provides precedent for judges to rule against any exception that requires the LEO to prove that you were recreating. The judge jhamaker refers to said that he didn't think the intent of the language was to require the LEO to establish proof (Although in that same case "Govt. vs Siart the LEO used a dash-mounted video camera to record the lic. plate and the ensuing interaction between the officer, driver and her passenger who were returning to their car). That means that the exceptions (eg. work, religious observance, etc) are placed under the discretionary powers of the LEOs themselves. I don't know of any place in my local mtns where I can find a parking place that is not signed. If I need to ride a bike to the NF I would need 3 days to do a one day climb. Moreover, I can see the day coming when every entrance to a NF has a toll gate like NPs do. So far that won't work since you can't be charged for driving thru a NF on a state hwy... Finding ways to avoid paying the $5 is beside the point of the essay though. At some places the FS is just trying to make a buck when they do NOTHING to the trail or TH. I'm happy to donate for solar toilets or the like, but I want to have a choice. At Pete's Pile, a tiny crag near Mt Hood the FS put a Fee Demo sign near the TH when the trail was made by foot traffic, protected from erosion by volunteers from Hood River and the crag itself is signed with hand-carved signs which warn where the chossy rock is.

A little essay I wrote. Might be a bit esoteric for some readers. It begins; I do not know of a free society, past or present. I consider a free society one in which freedom is accessible to everyone and I define freedom like Thoreau; one is free if they can excersise their own moral sense (but not a lack thereof). One of the things I love to do the most involves a climb to the summit of some remote peak where (if I can stand to sit there) I sit and feel things that very few other people will ever feel. It is no overstatement to say that while I cling with human claws to a knife-edge ridge with the wind in my face and a thousand feet of air below my feet I feel a reverence and a humbling smallness that I have never felt anywhere else. The experience in its entirety is spiritual for me. It is a lonely state often made more so because I like to do it alone. It is a pilgrimage of sorts that allows me to let all the extraneousness of life fall away leaving only the ?essential facts of life?. Imagine then that I am often required by a new ?rule? to pay for this experience. Congress has allowed the US Forest Service to charge me five dollars every time I park my car near a trail. On some peaks I must pay fifteen dollars to go above 10,000 feet. Needless to say I can not stand being charged by mankind to see God. Such an imposition is immoral in the deepest sense. It is as if the police have come into my church and demanded that I pay for my sacrament. Perhaps the most essential part of my moral sense is my free access to those experiences that bring me the deepest kind of understanding (enlightenment, if you will). No doubt I endure other indignities to have these experiences but at least I could previously feel that once I left the trail that I was in my church all alone. I can no longer get that feeling so easily and, I?m afraid, the Forest Service has made my cathedrals into Disneyland. Yes, I feel that my connection to the cosmos is now blocked by a sign that demands money. This ?Fee Demonstration Program? is still not a law in the technical sense and I have written impassioned letters to my representatives and the president telling them how much the idea offends me. Little good it will do me because every six months since 1998 the Forest Service has gone to Congress with the numbers of permits sold and used them as ?evidence? that the public is willing to pay (even though you can be cited and fined for not paying). I feel I have no recourse and that I am a slave in some sense to a system that I believe is irresponsible and immoral. When I think of it (not all the time of course) I feel extremely angry and trapped. I don?t know of any other wilderness area where you are charged simply for access. In many places you can be charged for mandatory rescue insurance, transportation, etc. but these are charges for goods and services that cost money to produce. There aren?t that many wild places left where people can go to experience things that humankind had no part in producing and I believe that even if you never go to these places that there is something about the mere existence of wild places that maintains intact some part of the original animal nature of humankind. What could be less natural than being forced under rule of law to pay to walk in the woods? What if Thoreau was charged fifty cents to watch the ants at Walden? If he were he could not have been confronting the ?essential facts of life? but would rather have been confronting the seedy greediness of humankind. I can?t imagine (for myself) how I could be made to feel less free than to be charged to sit up on a mountain wondering how long its been there and what forces willed it to be there. I can?t give you five smelly one dollar bills to breathe the incense of the firs after a rain and to sit on that snowy ridge wondering if that wind is a caress or a thrashing. Not less could I give you money for the trees and mountains that are not yours or mine because to do so would be to admit that there is no place beyond your reach. And that, is a lie I will not be enslaved to.

Are we playing name that butt? I think that one is icegirl's.

How dare you guys speak that way about GW!! He's our president and its not his fault that he's retarded. Remember that roadless olicy that seemed like a done deal? It got an all time record of public comments in favor and the Bush sent it back for another comment period. It still got overwhelming support so now they are watering it down to mean nothing. The latest thing is they want to give the discretion to the FS Chief about whether to allow roading and logging in roadless areas. Aren't these _public_ lands? BTW did you get your trail park pass yet? Yes, it seems like monkeywrenching might become necessary again.