sobo

Please explain. I was previously led to believe that only the 30-60 and 45-45 triangles can be calculated from knowledge of the length of 1 side. Otherwise 2 sides were necessary and thus the angle irrelevant. Ken, Yes, the 30/60/90 and 45/45/90 triangles make it very easy to calculate the length of any side knowing only the length of one side. But that is not the problem statement here. Trigonometry says that you can solve for the length of any side of a right triangle knowing either 1) the lengths of the other two sides (by using Pythagorean Theorem), or 2) the length of one side and the value of one of the other two angles (those that are not the right angle). Since we are given the (overhanging) angle of the subject pitch of the Leaning Tower as 110 degrees, we know the interior of that angle is 70 degrees. And since the 200-foot side is known, and that side must be perpendicular to the ground line, we have all that is needed to solve by trig (one known side and two known angles).

You proceed from a false assumption. You, in fact, do still have a right triangle, precisely as Dru (G-spotter) points out earlier in this thread. So the Pythagorean Theorem works here, and the answer is 72.8 feet. This assumes that you are at the extreme end of the 200-foot rope, and we ignore the effects of rope stretch and the amount of rope consumed by knots. Note that keenwash came up with the same answer using the Law of Sines (as one would expect), but in this instance there is no need for such superfluousness in solving the problem. The more elegant solution is to invoke the Pythagorean Theorem. QED. Now to SnailEye's statement... This is also true. As you ascend the rope, your distance from the wall reduces. At the halfway point (say) you will be 72.8'/2, or 36.4 feet, away from the wall (still assuming an average straight-line slope of 110 degrees). Ultimately, at the top of the rope, you are in contact with the wall. You can calculate how far you are from the wall at any point on the rope through the Law of Similar Triangles. LST states that for any triangles whose angles are the same, the lengths of the sides are proportional to each of the other triangles. So, at the 200-foot mark, you are 72.8 feet away from the wall. At the 100-foot mark, you are 36.4 feet away from the wall. You can see very quickly that the ratio is 200/72.8, or 2.75:1. That means that for every 2.75 feet you ascend the rope, you will hang 1 foot closer to the wall, until at the top of the rope you are touching the wall. I hope this explanation has not been too for you. Please carry on!

Hey Sobo, what time is it? I don't know what to say... simply at a loss for words here... :shakinghead:

Now that's fuq'n funny, I don't care who ya'are.

Clarification required, Dane. Not as bold as you think I am... I soloed up to the first bolt on the pitch and then a little bit higher. Realized if I kept going I was gonna orphan my new (at the time) son, so downclimbed the damned thing and ran home crying like a lost calf.

Dane! WTF, d00d?? Thought you were in Boise for the long weekend. Add the fact that you did RTL on Monday, while I was drinking with Justin because it was freak'n pouring rain in E-burg all morning and we couldn't muster the motivation to drive over to GE to even check on RTL, and you really make me look like the flake that I truly am... Got any pics? A TR coming? Who'ja partner up with for the outing?

Yeah, Teresa, it was sa-weet! Don't buy the hype about it being too loose. Justin only pulled off one hold all day, and I only got beaned once. Do wear a helmet, though, even if you're not under anyone. And thanks for the well wishes. I'll drink with you anytime!

I echo the sentiments in this thread. My personal thanks to all veterans - serving, retired, or laid to rest.

Linky Now that's fuq'n funny, I don't care who ya are. Nice one, Scott!

Trip: Goose Egg Mtn - Dirty Sanchez Date: 5/30/2010 Trip Report: Distel-style photo assault TR follows... Justin (summerprophet) and I did the Dirty Sanchez on Sunday, and arrived at the parking spot as jessbee and partner were reaching the belay on top of Pitch 4. No worries about party-inflicted rockfall by the time we started up, although Justin did bounce a golf-ball-sized one off my helmet on Pitch 3. Four and half hours up, one hour down; used the descent gulley and one rap off the tree. Fabulous day, and the rock really ain't all that bad, especially for basalt. Sobo contemplates Kloochman's and Strobach Mtn. from atop Pitch 1 while waiting for Justin to arrive Justin blasts up Pitch 2 Justin tops out on Pitch 3 Sobo in the fun off-width of Pitch 3 Sobo nearing the top of the OW - despite the expression, this really was a fun pitch! Sobo launching off on Pitch 4 Justin pulls into the belay atop Pitch 4 Surveying the looseness of Pitch 5 Sobo cleaning the short bolted pitch, #6. I really should have taken this lead... A small cell moved in and it got a bit windy and spitted rain at us between Pitches 5 and 7. Thanks, Justin, for the loaner shell. :tup: Sobo on the Jenga Traverse, the knife-edged ridge of Pitch 7. It warmed up a bit and the wind died down. Justin relaxing at the top of the climb. The cell had passed, and the descent gulley awaits... Sobo coiling up at one of the cairns marking the trail to the descent gulley. I'm about as fuq'n charged as a guy can be before heading in for surgery. Mad props go out to Justin, for getting me out before the knife falls! With everything taken together, this really was a fun climb: a great partner, beautiful alpine setting, multi-pitch route, decent enough weather, loose enough rock, good bolts, mostly solid gear, and every pitch had something interesting to be said for it. Don't swallow the hype in the guidebook about it being too manky. It's an adventure, so go get some! We never made it to RTL on Monday because of the rain. We'll be back... Gear Notes: We brought waaaaaaaay more than we ever used. Take a standard rack of nuts/cams, nothing larger than a #3½ Friend. Add half a dozen QDs and a half dozen long slings. Approach Notes: The guidebook nails it.

The ropes descent is controlled by my upwrd force, less force and they stop more and they go faster.Then I guess I'm doing it wrong. I pull up with one hand, and maintain control of the rope with my other hand. I guess I'm just Old Skewl enough to always keep (at least) one hand on the rope. Haven't gotten out of that nasty old habit yet, even after all of these years... You will get no argument from me that escaping a belay that is rigged to the anchor and autoblocked is faster than escaping one that is rigged through my harness. Still, I find it easier to lower (or raise) a fallen/pumped out climber from my harness than from an autoblocked device at an anchor. Has a lot to do with what Mark Webster said above, about being able to use your legs to help lift or lower. That's why I agreed above with hafilax that if I was leading on ground where I expect that I might have to lower my second, I'll opt to set up my belay through my harness instead of directly to an anchor. This assumes it's a multi-pitch, of course. YMMV.

Dont you just stick your biner in the hole and pull up and lower ? Yes, but that takes two hands. One to pull up (and maintain upward force) on the biner, and the other to control the rope's descent. If you're belaying off the harness (i.e., non-autoblocking mode), you can control the rope's descent with only one hand. This can have its advantages.

True. Again, true. Agreed. No opinion. Concur. Again, concur. Agreed.

ST shares the anchor with Fakin' It and Cajun Queen. Both are a number grade higher, although I thought them easier than ST, perhaps because they are less runout before the first bolt. So yes, Peter, you're right, because FI has 5 bolts to ST's 4, and the first one is much lower. If TR-ing is your thing. I was into leading all of the climbs at PP at one time. Got quite a ways along, but never finished...

Crikey! Was it RTL? I soloed the first pitch once, years ago (stupid stupid stupid in retrospect)!! If I had known it was that crumbly, I never would have been so stoopid.

Started this game with a straight 8, then a Sticht plate, then a Lowe Tuber, then an original ATC, and now a Reverso. I love the Reverso for it's "bringing up 2 at a time with autoblock" capability. Haven't bought a Guide yet, but was thinking about getting one, as my Reverso has developed the dreaded knife-edge as NVC mentions above. All along in there I threw in a Muenter when it was quicker, the ground was easy, was simul-ing, or was in a hurry. The Muenter is underrated. It does tend to fuq up new ropes with abnormal twisting, like Checat says, but it's not a hitch I would use exclusively just to leave a rappel/belay device at home. And like he says, it's a great hitch for a lower. @ Pilchuck- What in particular do you not like about the Guide? @ Checat- I brought out my old Sticht plate (without the spring) at Smith about 15 years ago and was promptly laughed back to the parking lot to get my ATC. I was crestfallen... It's in the bottom of my retired gear crate right now, along with a sordid mess of other old pieces of metal that I dare not expose to the light of day again... But to answer your question, it worked pretty well as an autoblocking device. The main problem in using it in that fashion was that if the "keeper loop" was too long, then the plate would drop down too far along the loop of rope through the anchor and it wouldn't actually block automatically any more if it came under a sudden load. But you could fix that by pulling one of the strands toward you after you reefed in a section of rope, but then you had to wrap the rope around your leg (or something) to keep it there if you wanted both hands back while the second was mucking around below you. It was just a technique that I used, and mebbe someone has (had) a better one, but after a bit of experience, I got pretty good at just flicking the rope behind my leg and catching it with my calf and giving my foot a quick twist to wrap the reefed in section of rope round my ankle. It may sound complicated, but it wasn't. Of course, my Reverso fixed all that...

When I first did it in '95, and when I cratered in '97, I thought it was at least 15-20 feet off the ground, with a scary move that had to be made before you could get in position to make the first clip. From what Matt says above, it sounds like it may be more like 25 feet away now. Having literally caught Dane in a no-pro, 20-foot crater at Castle Rock a couple of years ago, I can see where ST is now in a position to fade into obscurity without a lower bolt. Is Rich Doorish still around? Anyone asked him if he would mind if it got retro-bolted?

Matt, It's been quite a while since I've been to PP. I didn't know that the erosion problem along Austrian Slab was that significant to cause the loss of that pine. I do remember the Killer Root of which you speak. That thing was a leg breaker waiting to eat. So how much airtime has been added to the fall by the erosion that caused the tree to disappear? 2 feet? 5 feet? More? You said "significant"; I wonder, how much further to the ground from the first bolt is it now? I may not want to get back on ST if it's that serious... And I don't thing you're mistaking ST for another climb, I'm pretty sure. There is a very scary move that must be made before you can get to the first bolt. It still haunts me in my dreams...

Thanks to you both, Andy and Joe, for the most excellent recent conditions report. I am VINDICATED!!! I'll be a'gittin' some this weekend!

I normally try to keep my distance from these kinds of "discussions", but this one was OTT, FW. Just disgraceful. Shame on you.

Sorry for not updating this and thanks for all of the responses here and of course the PMs. I have partnered up for the weekend, and "multi-pitch" Tieton is in the forecast.

Hey thanks, Teresa! Was it dry before it started to drizzle? What I want to know is, is it worth the trip to check it out and get on it, or is it still dripping/running water and therefore not in the cards. My partner argues that it will still have snow on top, will be dripping wet, and the rap anchors will be buried in snice. I disagree, but neither one of us has been up there yet this year to really know jack shit. I'm basing my opinion on prior year's experience, having lived in Crackivegas for more years than I care to remember. Seems to me that previous year's TRs (AlpineMonkey, OW, Alpinfox, jessbee, etc) indicated that it was clearly climbable over MD, and this year is a low snow year...

As I recall that crash-landing in 1997, there were also a large number of exposed roots from the small pine tree below the climbs in that area. Those roots didn't help things none. If the roots/tree are/is still there, then I would say erosion has been minimal over the past decade +. If the roots/tree are/is gone as a result of erosion, then your position gains merit.

Anyone been up to GE or in the similar upper elevations of the Tieton recently and can give me a "Dry or Drippy" report for Dirty Sanchez and Ride the Lightning? OKTHNXBAI!

During my caving days, I rappelled over 1,500 feet without passing a knot. They make 'em that long, it's just a special order item...