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I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that was Billy Finley (below), and he "discovered" that trick from me almost 15 years ago while we were ice climbing in the Eklutna Canyon one evening in 1997. I had just finished relating to him my Stuart unplanned bivy story (just up-thread ^^). I think we watched the Hale-Bopp Comet that evening after topping out on Ripple. That sound familiar, Billy? I've been stashing a space blanket above my helmet suspension for decades. It could have been me that you're remembering, but I'm pretty sure it's Billy telling the story that you remember, Mel.

Now *that* is a really sweet story. Nice, Gene!

You can buy gear on this site...??

Spent an unplanned bivy on Stuart on my first trip up there 20-odd years ago. Went through 7, count 'em, 7 weather patterns that day (in order: sunny/clear, wind/overcast, fog/white-out, rain, lightning strike, hail, snow), only to be benighted on the way down. Like rob, we spent the night in our harnesses on a narrow sloping ledge with our feet hanging over the edge, and roped to a scraggly little bush. We were out of food, forced to drink meltwater, and neither of us slept a wink, shivering and slapping ourselves to keep warm. We didn't bring long pants or a sturdy jacket, thinking this was "just a July day climb." Ended up stuffing my feet and lower legs into my daypack and fighting over a space blanket. It got down to just above freezing, and it looked like it was going to rain/snow again. About 3:00 a.m. or so, I turned to Phil and opined, "Ya know, if it rains, we're dead men." Phil's classic response resonates to this day: "Thanks for the fucking weather report." Afterwards, I thought it was kind of a fun night, but Phil was most unimpressed with the evening. He had just gotten married a couple months earlier and would much rather have been with his hottie of a wife than stuck on a ledge with a bear like me.

Not oval - D's. Sorry, man.

OMFG, that's hilarious, Rudy! Best so far: "You came out of your mom looking like shit. She thought you were beautiful. Don't know what scared me most, your looks or her judgment." Gee, thanks Dad...

You're welcome. And iain's right. We dumped our steel biners about 6 or 7 years ago. You can have them. They weigh about a pound and a half each... but they're hella strong (Fu = ~52kN)!

Where ya been, man? Why does this surprise you? Ever seen a BD Guide? It's cast. Ever seen a figure 8? Also cast. A Sticht plate? Take a guess. I could go on... Cast rope gear is nothing new. 9/16" tubular has a breaking strength of somewhere around 1,500 to 2,300 lbs. 8mm cord comes in around 2,900 to 3,200 lbs. How much do you weigh, man? I'm in mountain rescue, educated by Rigging for Rescue, and we routinely use 9/16" and 1" tubular webbing and 8mm cord in all our rigging systems. And we're operating with forces much much greater than your rappel kit will ever see. Ya need to know yer math... as to my inhibitions regarding sport equipment- my "math" is just fine. i've done my share of bullshit OSHA-required coursework. it's not about break strength- it's about how much sawing/abrasion/heat/chemical exposure/etc it'll take to saw/abrade/melt/dissolve the equipment. bigger is always better, in this regard, and that's why we're not allowed to use sport equipment in RAFP. you'll NEVER see human weight bear on rope skinnier than 11mm, and for lifeline placement, 5/8-1", depending on the material, for a minimum 22kN rating. for webbing, you won't see anything less tha 1.5" tubular, and often 2", and 2" minimum for harnesses and seats. I'm not going to stand here and measure penises with you, bkb, but you're mixing apples and oranges now. You're talking about how you're "not allowed to use sport equipment in RAFP", and that's just fine. You get no argument from me on that. But we're talking about the limitations (and merits) of sport equipment in a CLIMBING/RAPPELLING setting here. You need to throw what you believe about RAFP out the window (when we start talking about climbing) and embrace a new set of principles, because the game is most definitely not the same anymore. As I said, apples and oranges. 9/16" tubular and sub-8mm accessory cords are totally safe for how we employ them and are de rigueur in these applications. Wrap a piece of tubular a couple turns around a rock or a tree trunk and tie it off and you've tripled it's single strand breaking strength (two turns gives 4 strands => 4X single strand strength, then subtract a 1/3 for the knot, ergo 3X single strand strength). Throw a biner or a rap ring in there to attach your rap rope and you've eliminated the sawing action you're worried about. If you're worried about sharp edges on the rock, re-rig to avoid them or pad them with something. It's all in the set-up. Again, I harbor not a single compunction against rapping off a 9/16" tubular anchor. Been doing it for over 25 years now. Just inspect your kit/rig and know what you're doing in the set-up. We're trying to help you in that respect here. I believe your fear/apprehension to be misplaced. And just so you know, in mountain resuce we operate pretty religiously along a 10:1 static system safety factor with a base load of 2kN (patient, attendant, and litter/gear), so we're talking about a 20kN minimum system capability. That's only ~10% less than what you operate with, as you note above. We're not that much different, yet we use the stuff you seem to be afraid of all the time, and no one dies. I'm sure you'll get over it, too.

Almost got blown off the highway several times by strong crosswinds on my drive over to the Wet Side today. 'course, my little Exploder has the aerodynamics of a brick, ya know...

Where ya been, man? Why does this surprise you? Ever seen a BD Guide? It's cast. Ever seen a figure 8? Also cast. A Sticht plate? Take a guess. I could go on... Cast rope gear is nothing new. 9/16" tubular has a breaking strength of somewhere around 1,500 to 2,300 lbs. 8mm cord comes in around 2,900 to 3,200 lbs. How much do you weigh, man? I'm in mountain rescue, educated by Rigging for Rescue, and we routinely use 9/16" and 1" tubular webbing and 8mm cord in all our rigging systems. And we're operating with forces much much greater than your rappel kit will ever see. Ya need to know yer math...

Thanks, powdrx and CC. Well worth the time spent reading that. I never knew her, but obviously she was really something and touched a lot of people, and was a force to be reckoned with. Very, very sad...

I was a caver before I was a climber, and as a result I did a lot of rapping in caves. The lesson learned there was don't use your climbing gear for caving, and vice versa, so I would recommend that you get a dedicated device for your sport rapping from a caving supply outlet, like RaisedByPikas said, or from a rescue supply outfit like Conterra. It'll be a lot beefier than anything you would get from a climbing store. There's a little thing called a hyper-rack, which is pretty small, so not real heavy even for being made of steel, that would suit your rappelling needs just fine. They are generally all steel, although at one time I put aluminum bars on mine, but they wore through so fast from cave grit that I went back to the steel bars. But if you get the v-twin, figure on getting something else for belaying/rappelling for climbing. The newer Reverso or the BD Guide would work well.

WTF??? Clicking on the link gives me this message: An Error Has Occurred! The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.

Yeah, kinda like that yippy dog in National Lampoon's Vacation...

I just drug my kids around behind me on a chain. They seem to have come out of it fine. Oh yeah... I also used to beat them severely and often. That seemed to help a lot, too.

LD, Thanks for that info on BARK. I had heard that she was involved with MR, but no one in my MR circles knew her. Now it makes sense.

Really sad to hear this news.

KING 5 article Anyone know more about this? Haven't seen anything here on cc.com after a search. My condolences to her family and friends. I heard a rumor that she was a member of a local mountain rescue unit.

I was born in Washington... Moved away from here in 1969... traveled the world. Landed on the east coast in 1976. Went south in 1980... hated it. Moved to the west coast in 1981, but couldn't make it stick. Got stuck back in Houston in 1982... still hated it. Moved back to the east coast in 1983 for school. Moved back here in 1988... never went back, never wanted to.

Just watch out for these guys...

"If this bus bathroom is rockin, don't bother knockin" eh? We never even got out of our seats. Well, she had to hop into mine with me...

One can have a bunch a fun on a cross-country Trailways bus trip. DAMHIK....

From my experience with Billy, the terms "Finley" and "jackass" are mutually exclusive.

Sandy, What DD said. I have a couple Alpine Bods that I use for rock, mountaineering, and ice climbing simply because I can take a dump without coming completely out of the thing. You can get one with waistbelt padding or without it. In my experience, I use my padded one for rock climbering, and the non-padded one for ice climbing and glacier slogs/alpine work, since I'm wearing extra "padding" (read: clothing) already. My $0.02 for you: Get a non-padded one that fits you generously for rock climbing and it will also work well for slogs during colder weather or when you're wearing extra layers. The other nice thing about a non-padded Bod is that when you're not using it, it rolls up to practically nothing in your pack. Some of the other makes of rock-climbing-specific harnesses have built-in stiffeners or something in the leg loops that makes the things practically impossible to pack up into anything smaller than the size of a Volkswagen.

Yeah, but Neil's problem hasn't seen a repeat in damn near four decades. Is it possible that it could be down-graded, given technological advances in those ensuing years?