David_Parker

I'm not sure what the newest model of BD's shovel is but if it's the small alluminum blade with a short stubby wood handle that can be pulled out you aren't missing anything. That was the first shovel I bought. I soon learned that the amount of snow this teaspoon would move was a joke! Any partner burried would be dead by the time I got to him and I would be dead from exaustion trying to dig a snow cave with one. Get a real shovel. DPP PS. If the BD shovel has changed, I recant the above statement. PSS. I use my BD teaspoon for sea kayaking now.

Being I already did my laps on Drury, I'll be doing laps in Canada. I like waiting a bit: longer evenings, warmer temps, more time to ensure the hot tub is full of chicks! DPP

FYI...I just found this but still want You Guys to give input! http://www.outsidemag.com/gear/gearguy/1199/112799.html dpp

I'm searching for a decent watch that includes altimeter and water-resistance. I had a Casio but it has had the batteries replaced too many times and the watchmaker says I can't rely on it being waterproof anymore. Casio seems to have quite a few of the pathfinder series. Any opinions on these or any other brand. I'm ok up to about $150 (if possible). DPP

I wouldn't be so quick to call Drury falls a sport climb,(especially if you do it in a day). I may have more to say later but only had time for this comment. DPP (with straight shaft x-15's and wool mittens!)

I have not used the 360 but I would like to comment on smiley vs BD express. I won't ever buy another smiley. They just don't go in as easily as BD! I also have now determined that the fact the BD handle folds down does matter! They just rack so much cleaner. I'll keep my one smiley 22cm for belays. That's it. DPP

Just don't rap with the rubber fishing gloves! I melted my first pair!

Now I'm back. Please don't think I think I have a "higher" right as a leader than a TR. I just think that a TR party needs to respect the desires of a leader party to climb a route. I only refer to this in the case of a TR party dominating the first 50 feet of a multi pitch climb. By no means does this mean a lead part should expect a tr party already set up to stand a side for a single pitch route. My example still stands in my opinion. Stairway to Heaven is a 5 pitch climb and considered one of the classics in Provo Canyon. The first step is popular for TRing. However anyone who arrives first and sets up a TR should not be upset if a party arrives to climb the route. In fact they should expect it and be prepared. They should not expect to say "hey, please don't climb this route because we're top-roping here." It's their choice to remain or go elsewhere, but we all know the shit is going to come down. Oh, by the way, Ice climbing is A LOT different than rock climbing. In ice climbing you expect shit to come down. I've never gone TRing on rock and "expected" rock to come down. The golden rule works. Personally, if I wanted to teach a novice to climb, I'd find a different place to set up a TR than on the first pitch of a multi pitch route. If it was all I could find, I'd be prepared to stand aside if a party came to climb the route. Nolanr has a very valid point and it sounds like the other climbers could have been a lot more respectful. Lets all try to remember to be friends and not assholes. And no matter what, you should always yell "ice" if you know someone is beneath you and you knock some off. DPP

For a trip that long, you better find someone who's willing to have sex with you! I'll pass. DPP

REI. Or RMI if you're using their services. If not, r-u sure your friends are qualified if they don't have any of this stuff? Don't ever underestimate Rainier! DPP

I'm glad to hear the strong opinions about leading over top roping. I came to same conclusion on my own and never really had anyone elses opinion until now! HOWEVER, if I showed up at a muti pitch climb where someone was toproping, I would certainly make them aware of my intentions to climb through and warn them "there's gonna be some shit coming down!" My personal experience in this matter is Provo Canyon in Utah. This is where I learned to climb and all through the 80's we had the place to ourselves. Ever since BD moved to SLC, the outdoor show in Jan. and the over all explosion of ice climbing in general, there is always a bunch of topropes on the first pitch of Stairway to Heaven. After not climbing it one too many times because of not wanting to knock shit down on top-ropers, I said "F-ck it!" I now, without any qualms tell the gummbies on TR that I'm here to climb this ROUTE and you should be aware there's gonna be some shit comming down! PS: I think the Ice Park in Ouray is a delicate situation because it requires you to rap or lower in and climb out. Often it is quicker to keep the belayer on top and therefore doesn't occupy a route as long allowing for the next in line to get on it....also a form of etiquette. Also, if you both rap in and pull your rope to lead, some gummbie on top might just start lowering down your line knocking shit down while you're cranking hard 4 or 5 on lead! PSS: I never did like zoos!! DPP

Sounds like a great way to keep your nose from getting cut!! DPP

Once again...You've got to have a quiver and believe me, I do! Personally, I don't feel I need breathabilty for my hands so I don't think it's worth it to dork out $100 plus for goretex or like. I've looked at BD, MT. H and OR "ice" gloves and for one reason or other I'd fail them all if I were a product tester! I started checking out snowboarding gloves for 1/2 price and my DA Kines work great for $45.00!! Personally I'll take a genuine leather palm over synthetic any day. I do keep them beeswaxed regularly. You must be sure that the palm material wraps around the finger tips completely or they are toast in a season. I do have one pair that I have had for over 10 years and still ALWAYS carry as back up. They are wool mittens with a leather palm sewed on. If I ever find another pair, I'll buy ten!! They are the best! I also have range rubber fishing gloves with yellow fluff liner, Reauch world cup ski gloves (leather) with pads on the fingers, Gordini "heat trap" with leather palms/fingers, Marmot "ultimate" ski gloves also all leather palms/fingers. Usually the outside air temperature dictates which gloves I choose. PS. I'm not rich, I just have been climbing a long time and keep searching for the ultimate glove. So far the wool mittens win! DPP

OK you guys...I have BOTH! A trango on my left side and a BD on my right. I bought my trango in Canada for about $5.00. I thought it was a great way to go. Then this year I went into IME in North Conway to get another. They wanted 9 bucks for it! Then I saw the BD for $4.50. Besides the price, I liked the looks of MORE VOLUME and WAY easier to put on and off. Personally, since I have switched exclusively to BD express screws, I like the BD clipper better because when I rack different size screws, I can still manipulate to the second screw down in the stack. With the trango, you have to take them off in the reverse you put them on, no options. Right now I put leading screws on the right because I tend to use my right (BD)hand to place them. I put the longer belay screws on the left (trango). The trango works fine but if you try to put too many on, they start sticking out at bad angles....a real pant ripper! Also, I concur that after 7 rappels off Drury Falls, I had a welt on my left side and not my right! The trango has a flat metal bar that you have to screw on. The BD has a simple rubber thang that is less obtrusive and way easier to use with no tools. Eventually, I will replace the Trango with another BD and give it to a partner who doesn't have anything! DPP

If anyone wants beta on Drury , I climbed it yesterday. As far I could tell Erik and I were the first up (to the top) this year. Dave Parker

I recall reading somewhere that if you are given a ticket you can send it back refusing to pay because the program right now is a "demonstration" program and therefore can not be enfoced until it is actual policy. Does anyone else recall reading this and verify? DPP

I don't mind paying to be in a National Park if I enter in my car. Other than that I am against fees. I prefer that whatever money is spent to access the national parks should go directly back, not into the US general fund. We should not have to pay to park and play in the National Forest. We could learn some lessons from the Europeans. They have approx. umpteen thousands more years dealing with this shit in tighter quarters and personally it seems they have their shit together. Its pretty obvious to me any governmental agency doesn't know jackshit about managing money. Their biggest concern is job security and justifying their existance so I refuse to give it to them. DPP

Clothes do not make the man and tools do not make the climber. Don't you have a quiver of tools? Once again, no tool does it all in my opinion. Last year, I watched my friend plop down $600 for cobras and then I watched him as he followed my leads. Looking down I was envious of the incredible clearance he had over bulges and cauliflower ice. I was very envious no doubt. I swore I would splurge as soon as I could justify it to my wife. Then I climbed this year with a friend who had the new Quarks. "Oh my god" I thought, "to think I almost bought cobras. Glad I waited!" Finally CM made a tool that wasn't too heavy and not as expensive. Hummmm.....but what about those Shrikes...they look pretty good too and even lighter. And that guy I saw climing with Cpt. Hook...they looked nice, felt good in my hands in IME...not too bad priced... I should probably ask a few more people... Ahh, but ALPINE you say. True Alpine? You mean plunge your shaft alpine. What about all these crazy curves and protrusions....I think I'll get those from my wife and keep my straight shaft X-15s and change from stinger to alaska pick easily depending on where I'm going..... and see what comes out next year! DPP ------------------

I have always been somewhat confused by sizing. Typically I go by Euro standard because I find it much more accurate. However In this particular case my boots say 43.33 or US 9.5. Now I have always been 42 or 9 to 9-1/2. So in this case the euro was not accurate and the US size was. Go figure! I like my boots for waterfall ice which is the only time I have worn them. I did get bad blisters the first time I did a long hike but now I do preventative maintainence: Dr. School blister treatment. I was just climbing in New Hampshire at 5 degrees with a wind chill factor and I didn't get cold. I also treated mine with the nikwax lotion and have not had a problem with wetting, but again I have not been on a two day glacier climb in summer yet. The contra grip seems a little more "plastic" than vibram but seems ok nevertheless. These boots are very stiff and I concur not great for smearing but awesome for edging. I feel I could stand on a dime plastered to a wall. I have always maintained no one boot does it all, but this boot comes close. Just make sure it fits YOU! DPP

Since the book isn't available, how about someone posting the mountain and route of some of the better ones. I can figure out how to get there by myself! DPP

I have found I don't have to be a member of the Mountaineers to read the great books they publish. I highly suggest starting your own library starting with a few basics. First and foremost is to buy and read cover to cover Freedom of the Hills. I would also suggest Glacier Travel and Crevasse Rescue by Andy Selters if you are even thinking of venturing onto a glacier. Then go find a tree and PRACTISE some of this stuff! Next I would purchase the three guides to the Cascades by Fred Beckey and the Climbers guide to the Olympic Mountains. Speaking of the Olympics, I personally learned much of my climbing in this beautiful range and use it to expose less experienced climbers to the beauty of mountain climbing. In the Olympics you get to hike through beautiful forests and then climb steep snow without the fear of falling in a crevasse (on most routes.) I find them less crowded and I can honestly say I have been rained out more in the Cascades than in the Olympics. They are a great, safe place to start teaching yourself what you can learn in a book. Spend some time in Leavenworth learning to rock climb on a top rope and then work your way into leading. Experience is your best teacher if you keep your head about you. Just don't underestimate ANYTHING when it comes to being in the mountains. One last note....the 10 essentials are a good list to know. Just realize it depends on what route you are doing and what time of year whether you really need all ten. Happy trails and wear your helmet, Dave Parker ------------------

Avalanche beacons are for body recovery. Anything else is a blessing. They are not even the second or third most important piece of equipment. Your brain is the most, but it needs to be educated with a snow saftey/ avalanche course by an accredited teacher. You also need a shovel. You also need to have the attitude that there is no "saftey" in a beacon. The best avalanche beacon is the one you practice using over and over and over............again! On in the car off in the bar! NO EXCUSES!!!

To answer Nolanr's question, I'd stay away from the leather boots designed primarily for ice climbing. The ones designed for mountaineering also may even be too stiff. It sounds like you do a LOT of walking with some climbing thrown in. The La Sportiva's, Super 9's are basically no flex soles which are great for front pointing but not ideal for walking or rock/alpine climbing. Saloman 8's may be for you. Also, Garmont has a very comprehensive line of boots you should check out. For what you describe, from my quiver of boots I'd choose my old leather Raichles (which are now like bedroom slippers) for most of what you describe. They are a little heavy but I can walk for miles, kick steps, wear flexible crampons, and there is plenty of toe flex for awsome smearing on slab. The advantage of the new leathers is that the toe box is now totally plastic which is better on wear for kicking steps. I climb most Olympic and Cascade peaks with my old leathers, especially if there is a long approach. Again though, I'd think twice if there was alot of snow and step kiking on my proposed route. It's a balance between comfort on the trail, kicking steps in hard snow, and how much rock climbing or crampon work will be involved. I was amazed by the number of people who say they put on rock shoes for something like the north ridge of Stuart or west ridge of Forbidden. Who wants to carry big boots in a pack? Don't underestimate the sticking power of good ol' Vibram! I own Super Mt. 9's and took them to Canada for ice climbing last year. My partner had the La Sportivas. We both have Koflach plastic and we are both size 9.5. The fit and performance of the leather boots was far superior over double plastic boots. I'l never go back! We both did not have a problem with cold althogh it was not severely cold. Save the plastic for Rainier. In the living room I must admit the Sportiva's felt better than the 9's but I did not actually climb in them. The Sportivas are slightly lower and offer better ankle flex for french technique but if I need that I just skip the top hooks when I lace up. We both got huge heel blisters hiking in/out to Professor Falls. Our analysis was that the totally flat terrain, lack of snow and new boots were the reason. For preventative maintainence I now use Dr. Schols blister treatment which looks exactly like the big flap that came off my heel. I had no problems on a recent climb,snowshoe and 2 mile road hike back to my car. BOTTOM LINE: There is NO boot that does it all!! Fit and comfort far outweigh brand. What is good for front pointing is not for walking. You must have flex if you walk a lot. Flex is better for rock climbing especially if it involves friction/slab. Totally rigid is for front pointing only. I think most of the new leathers are warm enough for what you need and if you're going where it is cold enough to second guess you probably already have double plastic boots or if you don't, rent some. Treat your leather regularly with waterproofing and try smartwool socks; they're great!

Monday Dec. 3, 2000 Since I had to be in Port Angeles for my 60k service on my 4-runner I took my loaner car up to Hurricane Ridge on a gorgeous sunny day. From the parking lot for the visitors center, Mt. Angeles is about 2.5 miles to the NE and is easily reached by a well marked snowshoe trail that traverses a prominent ridge. However, there is a shorter steeper approach if conditions are favorable. About 2.7 miles back down the road is an obvious avalanche gulley that descends directly from the summit block. Don't even think about parking your car here if conditions are not safe. The switch back trail avoids the gully on the right side and as the name implies gets you up onto Klahhane Ridge in only 1.6 miles. It is possible to climb the gully directly to the summit by taking the right hand fork near the top, but I wanted to hit the east face of the second summit (6429') and then traverse to the main summit. Armed with snowshoes, ice axe and crampons, I followed the trail, cutting off some of the switch backs by kicking steps, until I got to the trail that traverses across the main gully. I then donned snowshoes to avoid postholeing and headed directly up and right towards Klahhane Ridge. From west end of Klahhane Ridge, the east face is easily viewed. It looks like a major uplift with dozens of slanting gullies, many of which are extremely narrow. Pick the one you like and be sure to concentrate on picking the right entrance as you may not be able to get out of some until the top. There is a good photo of this east face in the Climbers Guide to the Olympic Mountains. The day I was there had considerably less snow than the photo, but they were all filled enough to climb. I chose a really narrow one that looked like it had a very short vertical "step" that was hopefully ice and also a more sporty rock exit. I dropped down a few feet and traversed a short distance. The snow was harder and my snowshoes were sliding so I switched to crampons. More traversing and a few steep moves gained the chute where the sun was disappearing around the corner. Since it had been in the sun most of the morning, I had balling problems, but I still kept my crampons on. The "step" was one axe placement over a bulge and the rock exit was easy. Then a short saunter to the summit. The traverse to the main summit tends to force you to descend left into the main gulley again when you come to a couple small gendarmes. However I stuck to the ridge as best as possible, passing a few on the north side where the snow was more powdery. A couple low 5th class moves and a jump down and then up a ramp and I was on the summit where it looked like Victoria BC was only 2 miles away across the straights of Juan de Fuca. Of course Mt. Baker, the Cascades and the whole interior of the Olympics were in full display. The descent again incorporates the main gully with a traverse back to the ridge but I opted for a more direct descent down the ridge proper. This was a little sketchy without a rope, but soon I was chatting with a couple skiers who were parked for lunch on the SW facing slope just below the summit. From there I opted to follow the ridge all the way back to the visitor center just to see how long it would take. My time was about 1 hour 20 minutes to the parking lot on snowshoes. Keep in mind that either way (out or back), the ridge has a few steep sections you have to go up. I then hiked down the road back to my car and only got a ride from a car for the last mile. Hurricane Ridge is a great way to get to 5,000' in a car all year round (conditions allowing) and offers skiing, snowshoeing and guided nature tours. It is in the Park and even on Monday they were collecting the fee at the gate. DPP/12-11-y2k

Any beta on more "alpine" ice routes. With the lack of snow I'm wondering what triple couloirs, ice cliff glacier, n.face Chair would be like? DPP