cj001f

quote: Originally posted by Rodchester: "a) Actualy law suits are pretty rare in the industry and are often settled by insurance companies for "cost of defense." The law is defintely on the guide's side. The highest case in this state was an RMI case in which old Lou won...it was thrown out and never made it to trial..and it was sustained on appeal. There is also a CA case that had a similar result. You are generally correct Rodchester, however there are changes potentially coming to the guiding world (as the above linked Outside magazine article summarizes nicely) And never underestimate the will of well back "wronged parties" http://www.ourayiceclimbing.com/lawsuit.html

quote: Originally posted by trask: Just curious--what's the deal with so many climbers either unemployed or working shit jobs for no pay? Becasue we are too good for corporate America ?

quote: Originally posted by Dru: tape a mirror over it? Or a piece of black tape. My favorite Idea was to put a chopper wheel in front of it - really screw up there numbers! Carl

quote: Originally posted by jon: I really doubt they have motion sensors up there. Most of the detectors I've seen haven't been true motion sensors - they have "intrusion/pass" detectors that record everytime the beam is blocked. You cna always tell these because there's a mirror on one side of the trail - and the light source on the other side. I've seen them in National Parks, and in State Parks(CA) - often times if you go check out the back of the sensor they have a rolling counter that shows how many times it's been triggered. Now the border problems has a whole suite of intrusion detectors (the Mexican one definitely does). Carl

quote: Originally posted by allison: The idea that they only burn half of the fuel is bunk. It's not that the stove can't burn all of the fuel in the can - the MSR canisters leave little left over. I don't like taking partially burned canisters on a trip - and I like taking a 2nd canister along as backup even less. So I end up with a bunch of partially used fuel canisters. Carl

quote: Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: Anybody have any experience with the service department? I could not find a US phone Number on their site. E-mail works alright, or you can buy the replacement parts from their website. Their shipping fee is a bit expensive, but it works. Overall better than you'd expect from the people at the end of the Thruway Carl

Here's the text: Internet Sites Have a Toehold Over U.S. Shops for Climbers By KEITH JOHNSON Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL Carlos Barrabes put his family's climbing-gear shop on the Internet five years ago, looking for a bigger market than the tiny mountain hamlet of Benasque, Spain (pop. 1,000). But he never thought success in the U.S. market would boomerang. The U.S. accounts for about 25% of Mr. Barrabes's €8 million ($7.8 million) in annual sales. But he recently hit an obstacle. Since Christmas, his American suppliers have been reluctant to buy his gear, which they resell to U.S. customers. Lower wholesale prices in Europe and hit-and-miss custom duties in the U.S. enable Mr. Barrabes to undercut his U.S. counterparts. That has caused a backlash among U.S. climbing shops. Much of the industry has begun calling for a boycott of "European discount dot-coms" to protect U.S. shops from Barrabes .com and other European Web sites. "Are dot-coms spelling doom for climbing shops?" asked an editorial last month in Climbing, a popular American climbing magazine. This is the normal globalization script turned on its head: Rather than the American leviathan crushing small outfits in foreign countries, a handful of small European dot-coms, led by a pair of isolated shops in the Pyrenees, has an entire industry nervous. Even though climbing gear is a niche market, the dispute illuminates some of the challenges of globalization. Price differentials, fluctuating exchange rates, and different business models in various countries can make a mockery of what some call the "borderless economy." "It's absurd," Mr. Barrabes says. "They're just afraid we'll get huge if they leave us alone -- and they're right." He blames big retail markups and an inefficient purchasing process for higher prices in the U.S. "The truth of the Internet is that the best company is the best regardless of where it's based." American rock and ice climbers have grappled with limited equipment selection and relatively high prices for years; many take advantage of trips to Europe to stock up on specialized equipment at lower prices. Until the arrival of Internet shopping, the American and European climbing markets remained largely isolated from each other. For the past two years, though, Barrabes .com and a few other online stores have burst onto the U.S. outdoor market, helped by the generally strong dollar, which makes their goods cheaper. American climbers often discuss where to get the best gear at the best price and Barrabes's name is being heard more often. That is precisely the problem. Are the European companies thriving simply because the American market is accustomed to hefty margins and burdened with an antiquated purchasing and distribution system? Or are they taking advantage of lax customs and sales-tax enforcement to undersell their American counterparts? In its editorial, Climbing said continued growth of the foreign sites "could upend the U.S. climbing economy." The publication announced a moratorium on dot-com advertisements, a decision that was followed by other industry publications in the U.S. and Britain. "We've got to buy time to let the industry get its game plan together," says Duane Raleigh, the author of the editorial in Climbing and now publisher of rival magazine Rock & Ice. "A lot of those retailers have been serving the community for 30-odd years; most of those dot-coms have only been around a short while. The government will have to come up with some kind of solution, like it did with steel, to put [gear sold by foreign sites] into line with domestic prices." But trying to support mom-and-pop stores during retail revolutions can be tricky business. In France and Spain, regulation aimed at protecting small retailers backfired, says Jose Luis Nueno, a professor who studies the retail sector at Barcelona's IESE business school. Other industry dynamics complicate the issue of protecting small shops: Many local climbing outlets in the U.S. have succumbed to large retail chains like Recreation Equipment Inc. of Seattle. "Regulation does not work in retailing. It is an unstoppable force," he says. Unstoppable or not, retailers are worried. "If this is left unchecked, it would put us out of business rather quickly," says Rich Gottlieb, owner of the Rock & Snow climbing shop in New Paltz, N.Y. He says he has warned publishers, distributors, and other retailers to take steps to counter the threat from foreign Web sites undercutting U.S. shops. The nature of climbing gear makes it difficult to compare with books, music or other merchandise sold online, or even most goods sold in retail outlets. Many people in the industry stress that local shops are crucial because they provide on-site expertise, fitting, and advice for gear that's often used in life-or-death situations. "I feel like I'm trying to protect climbers as much as myself," Mr. Gottlieb says. "I'm more a climber than a businessman, and there's so many things we do locally that you can't do online." For many climbers, the issue isn't a problem. "Most people go to their local shop when they first start climbing and spend a bundle," says Charity Dominic, a rock climber and backpacker in San Diego. "Then climbers go online and realize, 'hey, this is where you really shop.' " She bought her rack -- the hefty collection of slings, carabiners, cams, nuts and other equipment needed for rock climbing -- for about $600 online; the same rack cost about $1,500 in nearby retail outlets. "Unless the local stores start to compete on price, that kind of lobbying [against European sites] just won't work," she says. European companies also bristle at the suggestion, raised in the Climbing editorial as well as by distributors and retailers, that they are slashing prices and forsaking profits just to carve a handhold in the U.S. "We stick to the prevailing prices in the French market," says Neil Hardy, owner of Telemark-pyrenees.com, another site popular with U.S. shoppers. "It's a very competitive market, with very low margins, and if we raised prices 50 cents we'd lose business. U.S. retailers are used to fat margins." The U.S. market accounts for about half of Telemark's sales, he says. Mr. Barrabes says his model is similar. "Our prices are competitive, but they're hardly the bargain of the century -- and we're still turning a profit." Selling online at a level consistent with the lower wholesale and retail prices in Europe, largely the result of a more competitive market, doesn't sit well with U.S. manufacturers either. "We're not very happy to see the Internet retailers doing what they're doing," says Christian Jaggi, managing director for European operations of Black Diamond Equipment Ltd. in Utah. Black Diamond, which sells some of its gear in Europe at lower wholesale prices than in the U.S., stopped supplying Mr. Barrabes during the spring because he refused to stop shipping the gear back to the U.S. "U.S. retailers don't like to see cheap prices for Black Diamond gear on the web," he says, especially when they watch customers use staff time to try out gear, only to make the final purchase online. Hit-and-miss customs payments are an annoyance. Duties are rarely levied on online purchases from Europe, while U.S. distributors with licenses to import European equipment for retail outlets are obliged to pay. "I don't think it's fair for European Internet companies to say I'm price-gouging when they are, in many cases, violating trademarks, customs duties, and sales taxes," says Ed Sampson, president of Sportiva USA, a distributor for Italian footwear maker La Sportiva SpA. Many participants in the U.S. climbing industry concede the explosion of foreign Internet sites highlights inefficiencies and abuses in the American market. "I do think prices need to come down," says Mr. Gottleib of Rock & Snow. "I don't know if the U.S. market isn't being exploited to a certain degree." Even Mr. Raleigh, whose editorial helped ignite the public debate on the issue, concedes the climbing industry was caught off-guard by a revolution that already had changed the face of much of retailing. Of the industry's campaign to protect U.S. companies, he says: "I don't know if this is really the best approach."

There is a very interesting article on Barrabes & the whole overseas purchasing of climbing gear in today's (7/8/2002) Wall Street Journal, page A14. Among other things it mentions that 25% of Barrabes sales ($7.8million yearly) are from the US. I'll try to dig up my online subscription and post the full text. Carl

I'll second the recommendation to get real Glacier Glasses from opticus. They may take a bit longer, but they are excellent. I went with the Julbo Mont Blanc Micropore - a darn nice frame - though the classic round works too. Stay away from the plastic aviator style julbo frames some Optometrists offer - the frames are cheap, and the lenses usually aren't dark enough. I can't say that I recommend plastic lenses. Yes they are a bit lighter, but they scratch much, much easier. As for Ice Climbing w/o glasses - I can't say that I've ever had problems with glasses fogging - or goggles, if you put them away for the approach, and put some scuba type anti fog stuff inside. Carl

quote: Originally posted by glen: Is there any type of agency recording 'Nays' on the fee demo, or is the count based on only a tallying of 'Yays'? To the best of my knowledge their is no agency which publicly records Nya votes. Anyways - if you want to learn from the beauracrats ass(his mouth): http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/feedemo/index.shtml Carl

quote: Originally posted by leithal: I was not happy when the demonstration came along either, but unfortunately I think it is past the "demonstration" phase and is now fully implemented until it gets voted out. Wrongo. Uh Unh. Right now is the final big "push" for acceptance of the feedemo program - it hasn't been placed into permanent law yet, and it won't be, if we complain enough. As for what sucks about fee-demo - you don't have to diagree with the fee to think the implementation of it sucks. By buying the pass you vote yes for fee-demo - but you can't use the land wihtout buying the pass(otherwise you get ticketed). So in order to legally use the land, you have to vote yes for fee-demo. One of the more crooked schemes to measure public acceptance if you ask me. As for the Forest Service as a business - I won't go into that here. But you might want to remember that the Forest Service spent more money administering, and building roads for the logging companies than it took in in logging fees. Carl [ 07-01-2002, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: cj001f ]

For periferal Baffin info, check out Andrew Maclean's site: http://www.pawprince.com/Baffin/baffin-home.htm He had a mess of slides up from the trip - but they've been taken down temporarily. Carl

quote: Originally posted by fleblebleb: Why is the Bibler system better than the MSR? Does it enclose the entire stove? Isn't that a lot heavier? What's durability got to do with it, how much abuse is a stove hanging setup going to take? The Bibler is just 2 pots - one nesting inside the other. Attach the stove. Start Stove. Weighs 20oz w/pot. The MSR is an expanding X w/ cables, a cheesy windscreen and a reflector. Mucho more of a pain to set up. The MSR weighs less but doesn't pack any smaller - because you still have the big pot. As for durability - it matters to me because I can break anything. Anything. And when things are in HaulBags/Packs I beat them up. The Bibler has a pot/windscreen/cables combo that still works well dented, and isn't any more of a pain to set up. The more you beat up the Ascent, the more of a pain it is to set up. Carl

I OFTEN FIND IT DIFFICULT TO MODULATE THE TONE OF MY VOICE.

quote: Originally posted by gapertimmy: so what do you use for lightweights? [/QB] La Sportiva Hypers. Awesome. They've got the best shank of any of the Lightweights - you can even passably crampon with them. They are a bit hard to find (mtn tools carries them), adn they're not cheap ($130). I've had absolutely no luck with the Salomons. I went through 2 pairs of Raidwinds in 3 days. Both times the fancy lacing system broke - not cool. The other pairs of Salomon lighwights have fallen apart quickly on me to. As much as it's uncool .... the north face trail running shoes I've had are nice for hiking, and definitely durable(cheap too - from outlets) Carl

topozone.com has USGS topo maps available online, free - and better printing versions for a small fee. They print fair to excellent depending on your printer & configuration. I've used them for 1 off trips to areas where I dont' want to spend the money on a "real" map. Carl

Toss my vote for the Pocket Rocket. The Giga Power is about the same in terms of performance, packability, and stability - but much more expensive(I've seen the PR as low as $25) As others have said neither stove is good for cold, and they can be a bit more work to find a stable base than the Whisperlite. The Superfly Hanging System is crap - the Bibler system is 100 times better, in durability and performance. Carl [ 06-25-2002, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: cj001f ]

quote: Originally posted by climberted: Dru, Where can I find the CAJ, Desnivel, Mountain Info, stuff. I have the AAJ and want some more info on some projects I looking at. Thanx There are these places called libraries. Quite often they can answer your questions. From the comfort of your own home, a search engine works quite well. The American Alpine club has quite a good library that will do research for you(if you pay the fee) or send you books(if your a member) www.americanalpineclub.org - click on resources. For the Canadian Alpine Journal (commonly abreviated CAJ) http://www.alpineclubofcanada.ca/publications/caj.html Desnivel.com is a compendium of expedition briefings results/etc. [ 06-25-2002, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: cj001f ]

quote: Originally posted by Figger Eight: I scramble eggs... WTF is a scrambler? A scrambler - i.e. a Class 3 or 4 climber. Historically, most climbers - read about the first ascent of Grand Teton (the Owen one, not the real first ascent). He described the difficulties as not much more than the normal scrambling faced when fishing, hunting, etc. - and Owens-Spalding is a 5.7. If your looking for fellow scramblers - there are a few that lurk here, but a better source for worthwhile dialogue would be summitpost.com (ugh!) Carl

It may be interesting to note that this editorial was centerplace in the San Jose Mercury New Opinion section this weekend: Risk and rescue THERE ARE GOOD REASONS NOT TO CHARGE CLIMBERS IN DISTRESS By Miguel Helft TWELVE summers ago, I watched in horror as 43 people were swept to their deaths in an avalanche on the snowy flanks of a popular 23,000-foot mountain called Pik Lenin, in what is now Tajikistan. It turned out to be the worst accident in mountain climbing history. The grim details of the tragedy haunted me for years and remain etched in my mind. But the accident did not stop me from climbing. In fact, that trip was the first in what would become a five-year career as a mountain guide that took me to high peaks in Nepal, Pakistan, Russia and the Andes. You may think I'm a reckless nut. Likewise, many people think that those who were caught in the tragic accident on Mount Hood on May 30 were foolish or irresponsible. To the non-climbing world, these awful accidents reinforce a perception of climbers as risk-addicted thrill-seekers. And the sight of rescuers endangering their lives -- or a rescue going awry as it did on Mount Hood -- renews calls for charging climbers for the cost of rescues. There is no question that climbing involves risk. That is why most climbers spend much of their time assessing, and seeking to avoid, risk. In fact, I have never been involved in an activity where virtually everyone is so single-mindedly focused on safety. Before I ever set foot on a mountain, there were drills on how to set anchors, prevent hypothermia or dehydration. Later came lessons mitigating altitude sickness, assessing avalanche risk and administering first aid. Countless other pursuits involve balancing risk and safety. Boaters, skiers and mountain bikers balance risk and adventure. Merely setting off on a hike in the wilderness can be risky. There's no precise way to compare the relative risk of these activities. Yet, the number of climbing-related deaths, while not insignificant, is not inordinate. During the 1990s, as the popularity of climbing soared, and tens of thousands of climbers throughout the United States took to the mountains every weekend, an average of 27 deaths were reported each year. Perhaps because climbing takes place in an unfamiliar environment of cliffs and crevasses, glaciers and extreme weather, it is perceived as far more dangerous than it really is. Commercial gimmicks such as the X-Games and the well-publicized stunts of a few add to that image. Still, why waste taxpayers money rescuing climbers indulging in their need for adventure? Because charging for rescues would have a string of unintended negative consequences. The most vocal opponents of rescue fees, it turns out, are not climbers, but rescuers. Charging for rescues would lead stranded climbers to delay calls for help until the last possible minute, increasing the risk to climber and rescue crew alike, says Charley Shimansky, education director of the Mountain Rescue Association, a group representing 3,000 search-and-rescue volunteers. An alternative, charging climbers as a group through user fees, is inherently unfair. ``The vast majority of rescues we perform are for a kid who walked off a camp site or mushroom pickers who got lost,'' says Shimansky, who is also executive director of the American Alpine Club. According to 2001 data from the National Park Service, climbers accounted for about 5 percent of rescues, whereas boaters, swimmers and hikers combined accounted for some 70 percent. If one user group gets charged, others should be charged proportionally. But even fees fairly distributed across user groups present problems. In a recent Wyoming case, the Park Service was sued for allegedly providing an inadequate rescue. The suit was thrown out when a federal judge ruled that the Park Service had no obligation to provide a rescue. Rescue fees would imply the duty to help, and a single jury award for a rescue seen as inadequate could end up costing taxpayers far more. Finally, the perception that rescues impose huge costs on taxpayers is incorrect. Most ground crews are made up of volunteers. Military and National Guard helicopter pilots are required to perform a minimum number of search-and-rescue operations every year to stay current. If climbers didn't call for help, they would have to incur similar costs with mock rescues. Some of the worst climbing accidents, such as the one on Mount Hood, happen when too many people, including many inexperienced climbers, converge on the same mountain. Ongoing education by the climbing community and park rangers, along with sensible limits on use, through permits, would go a lot further than rescue fees in saving taxpayer's money -- and lives.

quote: Originally posted by climberbro16: What would be a good 2-3 day climb to take my dad on. He has lots of hiking experiance but has never climbed. What would be a good climb to take him on that is not to boring but not to difficult either. Im looking for alpine or glacier climbs.Any Suggestions? Chris You might want to try east ridge of Eldorado - the ridge makes for stupendous views, and the approach is a nice hike. Might not be the best for him if he's not comfortable with exposure though. Carl

Poseur is right that sooner or later you will own a single wall - but unless you dedicate your life to fast an light you won't use it. For most trips I prefer TNF's Mountain Tent/Mountain 25 - it's a bit bigger than the Bibler which is nice for skiing trips, and when your stuck in a tent. Sure it weighs 8 lbs - but your not kissing the guy next to you in it. And it has a vestibul you can cook in. And at $330 for the 2001 model from Campmor it's a lot cheaper than a Bibler.

quote: Originally posted by Poseur: Wetsuits are not mandatory in SD, a novel respite. The wax may reek havoc on the inner thighs though. Bring a gun. Agree on both counts - especially the gun. Wear it prominently - unless you have the physique(& attitude od Mike Tyson) San Diego's rashguard and boardshorts - get'em long and you shouldn't have any problem with wax. That said it's nice to surf there - lots of classic waves. And your right its alot warmer than Oregon (of course Hawaians complain that the San Diego is cold) Have fun Dave!

quote: Originally posted by Big Wave Dave: Everyone duck, here's the spray: Liberty Ridge Liberty Crack Surfing in San Diego Wind Rivers (routes undecided) E Face Early Morning Spire I think it's rather dangerous to spray about it beforehand, don't tick off the mountain gods, you know? So take all this with a grain of salt-- You never know what can happen... Why San Diego? There are a lot of nice waves between Portland and San Diego - most of them without a couple of 100 angry teenagers too! Carl

quote: Originally posted by bellemontagne: What tele boots do you have?? I heard a rumour that Black Diamond Sabretooths will fit tele boots (although they may only fit Scarpa boots). I've gotten Sabretooths to work on both Supercomps and Snowfields. I don't know about other brands of plastic boots. Carl